Results 1 - 7 of 7
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did American Revolution violate Rom 13:1 | Rom 13:1 | BradK | 157620 | ||
Hi wilma, I've been following this dialog to some extent:-) It is an interesting question posed- and I think it has been answered? How do you get to, "The majority of "Christians" in Germany in the late 1930's rationalized their allegiance to the Nazi regime."?? Are you saying that we or a majority of Christians in America are the same as those in 1930's era Germany? I guess I'm missing the connection between the actions of our forefathers in the American Revolution and where we're at now in the 21st Century. Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
||||||
2 | Did American Revolution violate Rom 13:1 | Rom 13:1 | wilmap | 157654 | ||
Brad: Do you acknowledge the the majority of people in Germany were professed Christians? I would ask you: How did they not only allow the atrocities of the Nazis to occur, but even directly or indirectly support them? Stepping from the American Revolution, taking the "fork in the road" to Nazi Germany, we arrive at any country in the 21st century where any true Christian may find himself a citizen. Now, how do we avoid "polluting" ourselves in this violent Satanic world. Rev 2:10 indicates it will take real courage to obtain "the crown of life." The ruler of this world wants us to compromise our allegiance to Christ and his kingdom. Do you believe his kingdom will come, and crush all the kingdoms of this world, even the USA? (Dan 2:44; Rev 16:16) Read Matt 24:4. Did you notice that Jesus said that, as his disciples, we would "hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed." He didn't say anything about being involved in such wars, nor will you find any support for Christian participation in wars of the nations. In fact, you will find just the opposite counsel: "The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world." (2 Cor 10:4) We arm ourselves with spiritual armor and our offensive weapon is "the sword of the Spirit, God's Word." (Eph 6:17) I don't expect anyone to adopt my view overnight, but I do believe God will require all to adopt his before too long. Thanks to you, and all that have participated in this discussion, for your views. Wilma |
||||||
3 | Did American Revolution violate Rom 13:1 | Rom 13:1 | BradK | 157657 | ||
Hi wilma, Let me answer your question in two parts. 1. I don't know if the majority of people in Germany were professed Christians. God is still God. He is sovereign and His purpose is not thwarted (Eph. 1:11). We live in a fallen world and yet He is glorified despite the many atrocities that have and will continue to happen until His return! If you recall, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD and roughly a million Jews were killed! 2. Biblically, there were many wars fought that God allowed. Look at the OT! The problem of war is well represented in scripture. In the whole context of the Bible, "war" is used some 240 times. you can also do a word study on "battle", "fight" and "weapons". We also have the reference to the extra-biblical book, The Book of Wars in Numbers 21:14. Though I understand your argument, I think you take to literal of a view with the cited scriptures. You also must be careful about arguing from the silence of scripture. He didn't say anything about driving cars or flying on aircraft either! Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
||||||
4 | Did American Revolution violate Rom 13:1 | Rom 13:1 | wilmap | 157680 | ||
Brad: Like Apollos, you are a "learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures." I will try to as Priscilla and Aquila who "explained to him the way of God more adequately." (Acts 18:24,26) 1. "And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not." (Malachi 3:18) Eph 1:12 goes on to say that "we should serve for the praise of his glory." This is so non-Christians might be led to do similarly. (1 Pet 2:12) I have read many comments on this site that demonstrate that you and others can distinguish between a Christian and one "professing to be one." This will not interfere with 'God being God.' The Jews that died in 70 AD died because they did not heed Jesus' clear prophecy. Instead they either picked up arms against the Romans, or continued eating and drinking, etc. until the "flood" came and swept them away. Those destroyed at Armageddon will be those that make similar mistakes. 2. I encourage people to read carefully about the wars of the “OT.” Discern what or who enabled the Israelites to be successful. Did God sanction all wars? How did he view alliances Israel and Judah made with pagan nations? Why did the Law instruct the future kings of the nation not to multiply horses for themselves? However, Christ was the fulfillment of the law, and the “holy nation” is now, not fleshly Israel, but spiritual Israel – the Christian congregation. A new day dawned when our Exemplar, Jesus Christ, laid down his life for us, while we were yet sinners. He showed us how to live and die so as to please God. He paid his taxes, although son of the One that created and owns everything. He could have called upon legions of angels to fight his captors, but his kingdom is not part of this world. Who are we to take the life of even one individual that Christ died for? Meditate on God’s view of life by studying the “Cities of Refuge” provision in the Law. Do you think he will allow us to rationalize away the 100 million deaths that resulted from man’s wars in the 20th century alone? Only genuine repentance accompanied by actions that demonstrate one has turned away from such a former course will result in an approved standing before our merciful and just Father. This life is a far cry from the “real life.” It is a world gone mad under demonic influence. Certainly, in the end, God will prevail. But meantime, he is allowing us to prove which side we are on. There are only 2 – God’s and Satan’s. There are only 2 ways to worship – one is false and unacceptable to God, and the other true and pleasing to Him. He has destroyed ungodly persons in the past, and will do so again in the near future. Satan is a tremendous deceiver that can make one believe that bad is good and good is bad by playing on our deepest desires, even natural and wholesome ones. You say I’m “too literal” but I suspect many may be “too liberal” with the Scriptures. Jesus knew what he had to do, although it made him unpopular and lead to his death. When Peter tried to encourage him to take a less strict view of his clear instructions from God, he was told to “get behind me Satan (resister).” The road a Christian takes is narrow and cramped and few are finding it. They must exert themselves vigorously in order to stay on the road leading to life. That life in Paradise will make any ridicule, torture or manner of death seem momentary and light compared to endless life in comparison. Imagine a world where Paul's counsel at Romans 12:17-21 is practiced by all. Or how about these by Peter: "To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth. When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. For,Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech. He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it."(1 Pet 2:21-23; 3:8-11) Hope to see you there. |
||||||
5 | Did American Revolution violate Rom 13:1 | Rom 13:1 | CDBJ | 157702 | ||
Hello Wilmap, That was a very exquisite post to say the least but could you please take the time and explain, to a dummy like me what, you were trying to say: I got lost in the shuffle about a quarter of the way through it and there are some of us on the forum, namely me, that aren’t as gifted as was Apollos. Thanks again, CDBJ |
||||||
6 | Did American Revolution violate Rom 13:1 | Rom 13:1 | wilmap | 157707 | ||
Thanks for asking. In brief summary, I started this discussion by asking whether persons such as Sam Adams violated Romans 13:1 by inciting the American Revolution against British rule. After all, the Romans were far more oppressive than the British, yet Paul was inspired to give this counsel. However, I have now generalized the subject, partly in response to various comments and partly due to my own desire to show the the importance of knowing when to obey the governments and when to refuse. One Forum participant wrote: "Remember the original issue for the colonists. It was freedom of worship. The European governments were oppressive in other ways as well, but the core issue was the right to worship our Lord Jesus Christ as His Word told them to, not according to the whims of the monarchy, or whatever factions were maneuvering for power. Perhaps God led a few good men to seek liberty, and perhaps some, for their own reasons, joined in." The apostle Paul and all first-century Christians lived under a government that made it difficult to openly worship. Paul used the courts to attempt to advance true worship. He was imprisoned and eventually killed (according to tradition), but he never advocated a revolution. Rather he encouraged full allegiance to God and his anointed king, Jesus, and obedience to the government as long as they did not ask them to violate God's laws. The principle is that simple, but the difficulty is trying to carry this out in Satan's nationally divisive world with our imperfect flesh. I believe "God lead" him to do these things, and thus, could not have "lead" the colonists to violate these same inspired words. Paul admonished the Ephesians: "Find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather exposes them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret." (Eph 5:10-12) May we all continue to earnestly seek God's refinement. Hope that made sense. Wilma |
||||||
7 | Did American Revolution violate Rom 13:1 | Rom 13:1 | CDBJ | 157708 | ||
Thanks for the synopsis, That’s interesting and you are quite the history buff. Since the subject is the Bible and not who shot John and why, I’ll try will keep it short. I was always taught that it wasn’t a revolutionary war but a war for independence but like I alluded to before, I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer; did I say that? I believe that God controls history and it sure looks like He knows what He’s doing. I read the end of the Book and we as believers in Jesus win! Paul had a good battle plan for believers to follow. 1 Tim. 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 2 Tim. 2:3-4 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. [4] No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. And the fight goes on; have a great day, CDBJ |
||||||