Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | disciplerami | 78010 | ||
That's a good argument if you believe in foxhole religion. But what if God says, "what about the million other times in your life that you had a chance to obey and didn't? I never knew you." What about the thief on the cross? Jesus didn't command baptism until after the resurrection. What significance has the thief on Cross to our discussion? Abraham and Moses were baptized either, but I don't know what bearing that has on this discussion. Help me out. Thank you for your thoughts. Disciplerami |
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2 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 78024 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! The point made is quite valid. To phrase it differently, if you are correct in your interpretation then the thief on the cross was saved by simply believing, but we must believe and do some work as well. Why would God have two different methods of salvation? My position is that there has always been only one means of salvation - faith. The old testament saints were saved, not because of their obedience to the Law (see Paul), but because of their faith in what Christ would do in the future. We are saved, not because of our obedience to some new law, but because of faith in what Christ has done. Both are saved in the same way. Where is the "Good News" if those before Christ's death could get in by faith alone, but we have to jump through hoops to get the same gift (or wage) now that Christ has died? Every single arugment you make for 'baptism' being necessary for salvation, the Judaizers made for 'circumsicion' being necessary for salvation. Both views are wrong for the same reason: Titus 3:5 - "he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit," Eph. 2:9 - "not by works, so that no one can boast." Rom. 4:23 - "The words ??it was credited to him? were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness?for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead." Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | disciplerami | 78081 | ||
Dear Tim, You misrepresent and cheat the thief of his full response to Christ. He rebuked another. He uttered words of faith. It is not fair or right for you to limit his response to "simply believing" that you might strengthen your argument. The thief did all that was required on that side of the cross. On this side of the cross, we are commanded to repent and be baptized. I'm not about to tell someone all he has to do it believe 'like the thief on the cross.' If someone asks, I don't recommend that you give the advice "do what the thief did." Tell them what Peter said, "Repent and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Chrsit for the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." I'm not a Judaizer. Straw man argument again. I'll go after anyone who trust in baptism to save. A Judaizer equaled circumcision to salvation; and being a descendant of Abraham with salvation. That is false. So don't bring that straw man up. I'm no Judaizer. It's sad that the only way you can make your argument is by implying I am. There is a vast difference between "baptism is equal to salvation" and saying, "baptism is the place where God saves." Vast difference. Romans 4, 'credited' to Abraham? That's right, but only when he had a working faith. It is amazing that you can't harmonize Romans 4 and James 2. Abraham DID God's will, first by leaving his home. He SHOWED himself to be a person of faith. But Abraham did not trust that his works were what justified; he understood it was of God. God saw His faith. It is just plain false to suggest that Abraham's faith, credited as righteous, was a NON-WORKING faith. Wrong. Good day Tim, Disciplerami |
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4 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 78089 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! My friend, you call it a strawman, but is it really? The Judaizers taught that one must have faith and be circumsized to be saved. How is this different from what you are saying? You believe that one must have faith and be baptized. You take plain statements of Scripture which say that we are not saved by works and interpret them as meaning 'not only by works'. I am at a complete loss why you don't see this my friend! None of these verses say, not only by works! They say, not by works. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | disciplerami | 78090 | ||
Dear Tim, If I show you my faith by my works (baptism), how is that incongruous to salvation by faith? It's not! Judaizers had no faith but in themselves. Isn't that the point in Matthew 6 as they prayed and gave with self-righteousness? Of course it is. Carnal men are impressed by religious piety exercised by Pharisees. But what man is impressed by my being baptized? Baptism is a work of faith, same as belief, confession, and repentance. I believe that faith must be demonstrated in baptism: not faith and be baptized. Faith is at work in the baptism, that is, according to Paul in Colossians 2:12. I didn't say it, Paul did. "buried with Christ in baptism, in which you were also raised by your faith in the working of God..." It is a straw man to suggest that my position is akin to Pharisees and circumcision. I hope you understand my point. Good day. |
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6 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 78106 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! Mt. 6 really doesn't have anything to do with the Judaizers. The Judaizers were Jewish believers who taught that in addition to faith, one must be circumcised in order to be saved. Your position uses the same reasoning. One must believe, and do something in order to be saved. My contention is that this is not Biblical. One is saved by believing, or accepting, or hearing, (whatever synonymn one wants to use) the Gospel. The Judiazers claimed that was not enough. They said that one must also obey certain commands of God. The difference is simple. I say that one will obey God's command because they have been saved. You say that one must obey God's commands to get saved. To me, that is salvation by works. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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