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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | Derdan | 76372 | ||
When his listeners asked Peter, "What shall we do? (v37) Why didn't he tell them to "believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved" see Acts 16:30--31. Why didn't they need to believe to be saved? Also, "If Peter's hearers were not baptised, were they still saved? Jesus commanded His disciples to be baptised, see Matt 28:19 | ||||||
2 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | disciplerami | 77890 | ||
Acts 2:38 Grammar Corrected It has been stated several times on this forum that the Greek construction found in Acts 2:38 wrongly leaves the impression that 'repentance' and 'baptism' are necessary for salvation. ________ Morant61 has said, "Greek pronouns and verbs must match in both person and number. While it sounds nice to say that Peter is simply going from the group to the individual, doing so seperates the command to 'be baptized' from the promise of 'forgiveness of sins'. One cannot say in Greek, "Be baptized (singular) for the forgiveness of your (plural) sins!" "Ignore the rest of the sentence for the moment. The above sentence in Greek would be impossible. The only imperative that can go with the promise of forgiveness of sins in the plural 'repent'." ________ Acts 2:38 reads: Repent ye (2nd person, plural) and be baptized (3rd singular) each one (HEKASTOS, see Thayer's notes) of ye (plural pronoun).... unto the remission of sins of ye (plural pronoun)... Morant61 says it is not proper to say, "be baptized (singular) for the forgiveness of your (plural) sins." Thayer disagrees and offers several places where this is done when HEKASTOS (each, every) is used. "HEKASTOS, when it denotes individuality, every one of many, is often added appositively to nouns and pronouns and verbs in the plural number: Jn16:32; Acts 2:8; Lk2:3; Acts3:26; 1Pt4:10; Rev5:8; Rev20:13. (Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon, 1889, p.192) Here is a perfect example in Acts 2:3, "and appeared (3rd PLURAL) to them (autois, dative PLURAL) tongues as of fire distributing themselves (nominative PLURAL) and they rested (literal, 'it rested' 3rd SINGULAR) on each one (HEKASTOS, each, every) of them (genetive PLURAL). The "them/autois" of "there appeared unto THEM" in this Greek text is PLURAL. "EACH" is from the same word translated "EVERY ONE" in Acts 2:38. Did the tongues of fire sit on exactly the same ones to whom the fiery tongues appeared? The obvious answer is, 'yes!' In Acts 2:38, the group that is commanded to 'repent ye' is not more or less than the ones who are commanded to 'be baptized individually every one of ye (plural)...for the forgiveness of the sins of ye. Other examples of this construction are seen in John 6:7; Lk 4:40 "We ask: "How many more repented than were baptized?" "Every one of you" is added appositively to "Repent ye" and they both refer to the same ones."1 Good day, Disciplerami 1www_bearvalleycofc_orgZarticlesZbaptismEssential_html _ is for a dot Z is for a forward slash |
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3 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 77919 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! Nice try my friend, but you are comparing apples and oranges. The problem with Acts 2:38 is not that 'each of you' is used. The problem is that when 'each' is used the subject of the clause is now singular and all of the verbs and pronouns associated with that clause will also be singular. Allow me to demonstrate. The phrase 'each (singular) of you (plural)' is used four times in the New Testament: Luke 13:15, Acts 2:38, 1 Cor. 1:12, and 16:2. 1) Luke 13:15 - "The Lord answered him, ??You hypocrites! Doesn?t each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water?" In this example, 'each' is the subject and is singular. The 'each' is defined as a part of a larger group - 'of you', but every verb and pronoun associated with the 'each' must be singular. Is this the case? Yes! The verb 'untie' is singular as it must be to be associated with the subject 'each'. The pronoun 'his' (literally 'of him') is singular, as it must be. 2) 1 Cor. 1:12 - "What I mean is this: One of you says, ??I follow Paul?; another, ??I follow Apollos?; another, ??I follow Cephas?; still another, ??I follow Christ.?" In this example, 'one of you' is literally 'each of you'. Notice again that the verbs associated with 'each' are all singular and that the pronouns are all singular as well. The verse does not say, 'Each of you says, We follow Paul...." 3) 1 Cor. 16:2 - "On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made." This example continues the same pattern. To put it as simply as possible, the problem with Acts 2:38 is not that 'each of you' is used. The problem is that if the last clause were meant to be a result of obedience to the command to 'be baptized' then the phrase would have had to say, 'for the remission of your (singular) sins'. However, this is not the case. The result can only be grammatically associated with the plural command 'to repent'. The examples you cite are different grammatically. As soon as the subject becomes 'each' all of the pronouns and verbs associated with the 'each' also become singular. 1) Acts 2:3 speaks of tongues of fire which divide and then 'each' tongue seperately rests upon an individual. The grammar of this verse is correct. 2) John 6:7 speaks of there not being enough money to buy enough bread that 'each' (singular) may take (singular) a bite. The verb and the pronoun are in perfect agreement. None of these examples demonstrate what you claim for Acts 2:38. To do so, they would have to say things like, 'Each of you must be baptized (plural)'. It just doesn't happen. The correct form would be 'Each of you must be baptized (singular)'. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | disciplerami | 77929 | ||
Dear Tim, Nice try yourself. What you state is the problem is NOT a problem. Thayer says so. Where you write: "The problem with Acts 2:38 is not that 'each of you' is used. The problem is that when 'each' is used the subject of the clause is now singular and all of the verbs and pronouns associated with that clause will also be singular." No, "all of the verbs and pronouns associated with that clause will" NOT also be singular. As Thayer says, "when it [HEKASTOS] denotes individually, every one of many, [it] is often added appositively to nouns and PRONOUNS and VERBS IN THE PLURAL NUMBER." What you claim to be a requirement is not such thing. You write: "The problem is that if the last clause were meant to be a result of obedience to the command to 'be baptized' then the phrase would have had to say, 'for the remission of your (singular) sins'." Again, that isn't what Thayer says. He shows that the HEKASTOS is used with PLURAL nouns, pronouns, and verbs. Your assertion that "your sins" be singular is in error. There is nothing ungrammatical about stating the text exactly as it is translated every time. Acts 2:38 Repent YE, and be [he/she/it] baptized every one of YE, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission [plural] of the sins of YE, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." The verb 'be baptized' is singular, matching HEKASTOS, which is used apositively with plural verbs and pronouns. Just as Thayer said it would. There are different ways HEKASTOS is used. Your examples don't apply to the present case since the word is NOT being used appositively with plural verbs and pronouns. In the examples you cite, yes, the verbs are in the singular. BUT YOU IGNORE THE EXPERT THAYER. He says "when it denotes individually, every one of many", as in "repent ye", "it is used appositively to nouns and pronouns and verbs IN THE PLURAL." The correct form is just as it is translated. The same number that are being commanded to repent and being commanded to be baptized. It says that 3,000 were baptized on that day--which is a mystery in itself for those who deny the purpose of baptism--and it therefore follows that 3,000 repented. The grammar is correct in Acts 2:3 and John 6:7 and the grammar is correct in Acts 2:38. The same rule applies. For John 6:7 you admit, "that 'each' (singular) may take (singular) a bite." This is identical to what is said in Acts 2:38: "be baptized" (singular) each one (singular)", then, as Thayer states, it is used alongside PLURAL pronouns and verbs. You have no case for insisting what Thayer says isn't necessary. Nice try. Good day, Disciplerami |
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5 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 77940 | ||
Greetings Disciplerami! I think that you are misunderstanding Thayer's point. Mt. 18:35 is an example of what he is talking about. "??This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.?" 'Forgive' is plural and 'your' heart is plural, but the phrase 'each his brother' is singular and appositional. It interupts the sentence. However, Thayer is not saying that a singular verb can take a plural pronoun as it's antecedent. The rules of grammar do not allow that kind of mixing. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | Searcher56 | 77943 | ||
Tim ... I am praying that Disciplerami and Sniper are able to understand what you are saying. Plus, see that their objections hold no water :-0. S |
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7 | To be saved must we be baptised? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 77955 | ||
Greetings Searcher! Thanks! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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