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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | filled and upon mean the same thing | John 7:39 | dse | 97572 | ||
Were people in the old testament filled with the Holy Spirit? Does filled and upon have the same meaning when referring to the Holy Spirit? Because in the old testament it says upon and in the new testament it says filled. |
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2 | filled and upon mean the same thing | John 7:39 | itiswritten | 97573 | ||
Before Jesus was glorified (read John 7:39), the Holy Spirit would come alongside certain persons to enable them to do God's will in this earth. But He did not indwell the individual believers.The presence of the Holy Spirit dwelled in the temple in the time that Solomon built the temple and dedicated it. He demonstrated this so that the people could witness this event as is cited in I Kings 8:10 where the Word tells us that the glory of the Lord filled the temple so powerfully that He appeared as a dark cloud and filled it so that no priest could perform while His presence was manifested there. The Holy Spirit did not indwell individuals in those days but came along side. If a person who walked with the Holy Spirit sinned, the Holy Spirit might leave that person. See (Ps. 51:11). However, after Jesus was glorified, the Holy Spirit now indwells individuals and we are told He will never leave nor forsake us.(Hebrews 13:5). [1] So, I do not believe the people in the Old Testament were filled or indwelt with the Holy Spirit (That is why [Matthew 11:11) we are told that the least in the kingdom is greater than John the Baptist.) [2] Filled means indwelt and upon means over, covering alongside (not inside). However, it was the same Holy Spirit and the same Personality and the same Power. It is just that before Jesus was glorified, it was not possible for the Holy Spirit to indwell the believer. I don't really comprehend it exactly but until we could actually be redeemed and our Savior Jesus Christ was glorified, it was not possible - It just is what the Scripture tells us. I hope this is helpful. Itiswritten |
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3 | filled and upon mean the same thing | John 7:39 | Ray | 110809 | ||
Hi Itiswritten, When looking at the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, especially Romans 8:9-11, I found no mention of being filled. Could you tell me why you say that "[2] Filled means indwelt". Romans 8:8, "and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him." John 7:36, "What is this statement that He said, 'You will seek Me, and will not find Me, and where I am, you cannot come'?" 37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If any man is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.'" I believe that the rivers of living water are the holy spirit of the Scriptures that we are to receive and be filled with. I welcome your comments. From the heart, Ray |
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4 | filled and upon mean the same thing | John 7:39 | itiswritten | 112633 | ||
Dear Ray, Sorry I have taken so long. I have been having problems with my connection lately. OK - I say filled means indwelt - Well if you fill a cup you pour into it. You don't go on or next to but in. So, that is why I say that filled means indwelt. Romans 8:9- says "But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God DWELL IN you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Well, I don't quite understand what you are asking me. If one dwells inside of something or someone he is inside of just as water can fill a cup or be inside of. Whereas, before the crucifixion and resurrection this did not seem to occur. In the Old Testament the presence of God's Holy Spirit was manifest inside of the ark and later in the Holy of holies in the temple. However, He was with the prophets and others but did not dwell in them individually. [see John 14:15-17] I hope this answers your question because I am not really sure what you mean. As far as the other Scriptures you cite, I agree with you on them also. No problem at all. I also believe that the rivers of living water are another way of speaking of the same Holy Spirit who indwells the believer. Sincerely, Itiswritten |
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5 | filled and upon mean the same thing | John 7:39 | Ray | 112676 | ||
Hi itiswritten, I am glad that you want to talk more about these things again and I am sure that now is just the right time. I want to talk about it more because I still feel that we should be filled, that we should allow God to fill us, and that we should drink ourselves of the living water. 1) We should be filled. I think that we have to keep in mind that WE are to be filled. We are not the ones filling, but rather we are the ones to be filled. We are to be filled and we also are to be overflowing, for John 7:38 says "From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water." This overflow did not come from us but rather from the One who said, "If any man is thirsty, let him come to (Me) and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.'" John 7:37,38 2) We should let the triune God or especially the Holy Spirit fill us. He is the giver. The living water is the gift. We are the recipient. We are told to go to Him to drink. We are told to be filled. I do not see the Spirit controlling us, but rather filling us. We are told to be filled, imbibe deeply, even become drunk with the living water. 3) We are the recipients and we get as much as we allow ourselves to receive. We are told, even commanded to be filled. I believe that He gives without measure. John 3:34. 4) However, you differ from my interpretation when you equate living water with the Holy Spirit. I see the Holy Spirit as the Giver of the gift of living water. Thus, I see living water as a gift, a holy spirit. My interpretation of Ephesians 5:18 is one of a lower case "spirit". Ephesians 5:18, "And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the *spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; 20 always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;..." We give thanks to (God) for all things that we have received. From the heart, Ray |
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6 | filled and upon mean the same thing | John 7:39 | itiswritten | 112678 | ||
Hello Ray, It is good to hear from you again. OK from the top. I agree that we are the ones to be filled not the ones filling. I also agree that the Holy Spirit does not take control of us but that He fills us. However, I do not agree that the spirit in Ephesians 5:18 is a gift as in the lower case "spirit." The reason I believe otherwise is because in the King James version, the Amplified, the New American Standard Version and also the New International Versions, they all print out "Spirit" as capitalized meaning "Holy Spirit" and the Amplified states it as: "And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but ever be filled and stimulated with the (Holy) Spirit." I am not a linguist, sadly. So I cannot look at the original languages. However, when in doubt about something, I apply the next best thing I can and that is to compare several good translations of the Bible and see how they seem to translate. Having done this I respectfully disagree on this point. And so this is the reason for my opinion. Sincerely, Itiswritten |
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7 | filled and upon mean the same thing | John 7:39 | Ray | 112741 | ||
Hi itiswritten, You can disagree with me about Ephesians 5:18. I can't remember anyone agreeing with me on that point. :) I don't remember anyone agreeing with a lower case holy spirit for Luke 1:15, Luke 1:41, Luke 1:67, Luke 4:1, Acts 2:4, Acts 4:8, Acts 4:31, Acts 9:17, or Acts 13:9. These are verses that speak of being "filled with the *holy *spirit to my mind. I can not find where these suggest being filled with the Person. 1) I referenced John 3:34 in my previous post and didn't make clear that I have a lower case *spirit for that verse as well. "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the *spirit without measure." The idea of "giving" to my mind makes the spirit a gift to my mind. The verse talks about the "words of God" and equates them with the spirit. The references that I listed above for being filled with the holy spirit, have words like "and they prophesied", or "they spoke the word of God boldly", or "they began to speak", etc. And Ephesians 5:18, "but be filled with the *spirit, speaking to one another..." So, again, I see no mention of a Person in connection with being filled. That is why in every occurance of the "filling" I have holy spirit in lower case penciled in on my personal copy. From the heart, Ray |
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8 | filled and upon mean the same thing | John 7:39 | itiswritten | 112841 | ||
Hello Ray, Now I never said anything about all these other scriptures you are pointing out here. Where are you coming from? OK now I think you are looking for an argument and I don't really believe in arguing matters of faith. Do you believe in the Trinity of the Godhead? I do. And I am very aware that the word "trinity" is not in the Bible. Be that as it may. The Holy Spirit is a person to me. He is not a gift, or a force in the sense that would make Him impersonal. If one has the Spirit of God in him that Spirit of God which is in him may manifest certain gifts and/or blessings according to the grace the Holy Spirit may give that individual which would enable that person to take his place in the body of Christ as one who prays as an intercessor or functions as an evangelist or as a pastor, etc. Many languages have different words for the different nuances in meaning for words like love, for instance. They have a different word for erotic love, or affection, or unconditional love. The English language does not have this and so we rely on adjectives or whatever is the context of the sentence or paragraph to convey the meaning of something.I did not mean to imply that I rely on capitalization to decide what the meaning of a word is in a text. In fact, in the original Hebrew, as I understand it, there were no capitalizations and there were no periods or any separations whatsoever. I don't mean to sound harsh. However, I prefer to study and learn and walk with the Lord and share, than to picking and being argumentative. I am not angry. I am just tired. I don't like picking. Sincerely, Itiswritten |
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9 | filled and upon mean the same thing | John 7:39 | Ray | 112934 | ||
Hi Itiswritten, Sorry I could not answer you last night as I spent a lot of it in the emergency room of a hospital again. I'll try and answer you now, after sleeping all day. I don't want to argue about anything, either. I certainly believe in the triune God and believe in the Holy Spirit as a Person. But we differ in that I do rely on capitalization to decide what the meaning of a word is in a text. I believe that the word of God speaks of the Spirit and the spirit, a man and the Man, a rock and the Rock, etc, etc, and each man has to test the spirits. Each man has to test the words to determine what He believes about God. For instance, the Jehovah's Witness has tested the word and has decided that Jesus was a god [sic]. I, on the other hand, as one relying on capitalization have determined that the Word was God and this One was in the beginning with God. Also as a counter of pronouns of Deity, I would give praise to the triune God that the pronoun total for John 1:1-3 is divisible by three. I believe that there must have been discussions similar to ours since biblical times. I believe that the differences in manuscripts, ones which omit pronouns or add pronouns of Deity are indications that "these things" have been discussed. 1) 1 Corinthians 2:9, "but just as it is written, "Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, and which have not entered the heart of man, all that God has prepared for those who love (Him)."" The manuscripts differ for the next verse, verse 10. For example, the NKJ has five pronouns and the NASB only four. This difference is not one of translation but rather is one of interpretation and number of pronouns. What do you think? How do you interpret this passage? How would you look at a comparison of verse 11 with 16? Have we received the Spirit or the spirit? Are we taught by the Spirit or the Holy Spirit? 2) Cor 2:13, NASB, "which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words." 1 Cor 2:13, NKJ, "These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual." I believe that he who is spiritual needs to discern all things. I believe also that each of us can not know (discern) the thoughts of the other. The only way to know is to discuss these things. 1 Cor 2:15,16. From the heart, Ray |
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10 | filled and upon mean the same thing | John 7:39 | itiswritten | 113093 | ||
Hi Ray, Sorry to hear that you had a rough time. I want you to know that I do pray for you from time to time. Sincerely Itiswritten Be that as it may...back to the subject at hand. I do not wish to convey that my bottom line is whether a particular scripture is written in capitals or not. I compare scripture and context and what other scriptures also say and I believe in testing the spirits also. That being said, I still believe the Holy Spirit is within me as He is in every believer in Christ Jesus who died for his/her sins and rose from the dead. I still say the Holy Spirit is a person Who is within me not because of captitalization but because it also says "Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world." [1 John 4:4]among other scriptures. In comparing verses 11 and 16 of I Cor. 2, I would say verse 11 distinguishes man's spirit from God's Spirit. I also believe that when verse 16 speaks of the mind of the Lord and that we have the mind of Christ, I believe it means that because we have His Spirit within us we have access to the mind of Christ. The Holy Spirit also will remind us of all that we have learned from Him and from His Word.[John 14:26]. |
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