Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can Modes Interact with One Another? | John 6:56 | sharp | 4995 | ||
Hi Tim, Not to avoid your question, let's look from your view. It seems we must have three Spirits coming to us. Father-Spirit -John 4:23,24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him inspirit and in truth. Son-Spirit-2 Cor. 3:14-18 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Holy Spirit-yes The bible with out doubt teaches one. 1Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we beJews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Gal.4:3-6 Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and inyou all. The bible also says the Godhead can be understood. Romans 1:20-32 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world areclearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even hiseternal power and Godhead; so that they (the things that are made - us) are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts,and creeping things. God works all things after the counsel of His own will not their. Jesus prayed not my will but thine be done, would not that be in referance to the flesh, complete human nature, or two wills in the Godhead? sharp |
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2 | Human and Divine Natures in Conflict? | John 6:56 | Morant61 | 5007 | ||
Greetings Sharp! I just finished responding to RevC about this topic, so it is fresh in my mind. First of all, let me state again that you and I agree that there is only one God. The doctrine of the Trinity never has stated that there are three Gods. So, everything you quote in your response, I agree with. The only difference we have is whether or not the terms Father, Son, and Holy Spirit refer to real distinctions within the Godhead or only modes. This is an important distinction because trinitarians believe that anything that can be said about the Father's nature (omnipotent, all-knowing, eternal, ect...) can also be said about the Son's nature, since He is fully God. The doctrine of the Trinity says that all three members of the Godhead are co-equal and co-eternal. However, the point that I think best addresses our differences is your last few statements. You wrote: "Jesus prayed not my will but thine be done, would not that be in referance to the flesh, complete human nature, or two wills in the Godhead?" If I am understanding your position correctly, you believe that the human nature of Christ was unaware of the Divine nature. Therefore, when He prayed, he was just acting like any human, not realizing that He was actually God. Therefore, the prayers were meaningless and unreal. I believe, that during the incarnation, Jesus was fully aware of both of His natures. He was fully man and fully God, and He knew it. However, He was temporarily subordinate to the Father (Jn. 14:28, Phil. 2:5-11). Thus, His prayers were real. The incarnate, 2nd Person of the Godhead, was praying to the 1st Person of the Godhead. What do you think? God Bless, Tim Moran |
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3 | Human and Divine Natures in Conflict? | John 6:56 | sharp | 5028 | ||
Back again Tim, Jesus knew exactly who he was, we find him reasoning with the Jewish leaders at the age of 12 years old. He ask his mother when they found him if she didn't know he must be about the father's business, John 14:10 "...the Father that dwelleth in me...". Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus, why, he knew Lazarus was dead long before he got there and that Lazarus would come out of the grave when he called. John 11:41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead waslaid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. 11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me. 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus,come forth. Here Jesus prayed so the people heard, so the focus was on God and not what most percieved him to be at that time, a man. If Jesus was fully God and fully man, which he was, would not that flesh have to submit to the Spirit? "Not my will but thine be done" His prayers were not empty in any way however I cannot see one God praying to another God. By the word omnipotent only one can be omnipotent,if one has all power, all means all. I believe we find Jesus as mediator and judge, lion and lamb, preist and sacrifice, and much more. He was our example, if he was tempted in all points like us, was God tempted or the flesh? Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his. Holy Spirit? or do we receive more than one Spirit? sharp |
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4 | Trinity vs. Modalism | John 6:56 | Morant61 | 5032 | ||
Hey Sharp! Thanks for the response! I still think that we are not on the same wavelength about our definitions. In your response, you wrote: "His prayers were not empty in any way however I cannot see one God praying to another God. By the word omnipotent only one can be omnipotent,if one has all power, all means all." Trinitarians absolutely do not believe in multiple Gods. I don't see one God praying to another God. I see God the Son praying to God the Father, but there is only one God. We are almost saying the same thing, except with one important difference. That difference is why modalism was declared a heresy by the early church councils. The difference simply is this: There is only one God eternally existent is Three distinct Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.) Modalism deinies the reality of the three Persons and turns them into modes only. But, we agree on the point that there is only one God. I don't have any problem with God the Son praying to God the Father, because God the Son was temporarily subordinate to God the Father during the incarnation (Phil. 2:5-11). Concerning your last point about receiving more than one Spirit, the doctrine of the Trinity says that the Spirit of the Father is the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit. If you are filled with the Spirit, you have all Three, since They are One. P.S. - Can I get a little personal? It seems to me that Modalist really don't believe that Trinitarians only believe in one God. Most of the response I have gotten seem to spend most of the time trying to convince me that there is only one God. I already believe there is only one God. The point of debate is does the Trinity or Modalism best explain what we know about the nature of that one God. By the way, can you clarify this statement for me: "If Jesus was fully God and fully man, which he was, would not that flesh have to submit to the Spirit?" I'm not sure I understand your point. God Bless, Tim Moran |
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5 | Trinity vs. Modalism | John 6:56 | sharp | 5041 | ||
Hi Tim, I do know by scripture that God is a Spirit. Paul speaking to the Athenians in Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein,seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times beforeappointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also ofyour own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. For in him we live, and move, and have our being. Nature, essence or what ever we may use to convey the thought of God's being, he is Spirit. Why not go to Revelations chapter 3 where it says the seven Spirits of God and make God seven persons; it would be way out. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost always adds up to three Gods, scripture always requires the return to one. I realize,just as I am sure you do, Oneness and Trinity doctrine cannot be reconciled. In the third and fourth centuries there was much debate and fighting about which trinity doctrine to use. sharp |
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6 | Trinity vs. Modalism | John 6:56 | Morant61 | 5068 | ||
Hi Sharp! Thanks for your response and thanks for a very polite debate. I agree with you that Modalism and Trinitarinism can never be reconciled. However, I am concerned that Modalists cannot seem to accept the definition of trinity actually used by those who believe the doctrine. Saying that we believe in three gods, would be like me saying you don't believe that Jesus is God. This ruins the possibility of a productive debate, simply because we are not even debating the same thing. I have enjoyed our debate, but I think we are at an impasse. So, I think now would be a good time to conclude this thread. If you come up with something in the future, I would be more than happy to discuss it with you. And, I'm sure that we will be interacting on other threads. God Bless, Tim Moran |
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