Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | 00123 | 232640 | ||
Steve, I guess you must be American, Canadian, or of a nation whose history is short. Our LORD Jesus Christ was not known before 2,000 years. Many countries are older than that, and many people dies without a chance to hear the name or word of Jesus Christ. So, what other standards will be used to them? If you say Jesus is the standard to anyone, are you arguing that people who lived before Jesus came to earth was already condemned not to be saved at all? Seeking the truth, Dan |
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2 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | azurelaw | 232643 | ||
Dear Dan, You ask: "are you arguing that people who lived before Jesus came to earth was already condemned not to be saved at all?" Though I cannot answer on behalf of Steve, however, in response to your question, my answer is below (pay attention to the grammar): "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe HAS BEEN JUDGED ALREADY, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18) I think Brother Beja's post 232596 about his exposition on Roman 1:18-32 is excellent and should be helpful for your understanding. You might consider to read those posts on the thread. Shalom Azure |
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3 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | EdB | 232649 | ||
YOu refer to brother Beja's exposition of Romans 1:18-32 and I agree it was excellent. However Romans 1:18-32 does not address the case of the righteous Jew that is in fact looking for the Messiah, has not created an idol, nor has he denied God. He simply is not aware that the Messiah Jesus Christ did in fact live and die and was resurrected. That news had not reached him before his own death. I believe if he had died before Jesus he would have gone to Abraham Bosom to await the Messiah to come to him and preach the "Good News" and to carry him home. However Abraham's Bosom is now empty so he can't go there. And because he hasn't yet called upon the name of Jesus for Salvation he still has sins. So upon his death how does God deal with this man? Please cite scripture. |
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4 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | Beja | 232651 | ||
EdB, For the record I answered this question in post 232604. In Christ, Beja |
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5 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | EdB | 232652 | ||
Beja I have gone back are reread your post 232604 where you said, "You are first assuming a situation which scripture is categorically denying the existence of. That is the point of Romans 1, there is no such human being. Every person in the entire world through sinful depraved hearts has either out right rejected what is universally known about God, or they have altered it to suit their own notions of what they want God to be." I disagree that Romans 1 eliminates such a man. If it does how do we handle David the "apple of God's eye"? Or how do we handle Abraham? Isaac? Jacob? There men all died awaiting the Messiah yet had to be taken to heaven by Jesus. They didn't directly do there upon their deaths. Upon Jesus death he went to Hades (abraham's bosom) and preached the Good News whereupon each that then accepted him as Messiah were as described in Eph 4:8 held captive by death but led captive to Heaven. Paul then later told us for us that are in Christ we immediately go to be with the Lord. But I do not see Romans 1:18-32 addressing the righteous Jew that lived during Jesus time but for one reason or another died before he every heard of the story of Jesus. I'm talking of a man equal to David, or Abraham, or Isaac. He hasn't created an idol, doesn't worship a false God, doesn't deny God and is very definitely awaiting the Messiah. These are not men of false religions these are men that followed hard after the God of Abraham,Isaac, and Jacob, after the God of creation, the Father who sent his Son Jesus Christ to live, to die for our sins and who was resurrected unto life eternal. That is not a false religion. |
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6 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | Beja | 232653 | ||
EdB, Read the post again. That's not even the right section. In Christ, Beja |
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7 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | EdB | 232656 | ||
What do you mean it is not the right section? Here is the post in it's entirity and I point you to the third paragraph in what you claim Roman 1:18-32 claims there is can be no person such as I describe. So I don't know what you mean it is not the right section. Full copy of referenced post. I struggle with how to respond to you. You are bringing so many assumptions to the text that make it impossible for you to see things rightly. I just don't know how to systematicly address all of it. Everything you are saying so far outside the historical Christian view of so many things. Let me at least give a couple examples. You said, "I’m talking of the person that truly loves God but for whatever reason has never heard of Jesus Christ." You are first assuming a situation which scripture is categorically denying the existence of. That is the point of Romans 1, there is no such human being. Every person in the entire world through sinful depraved hearts has either out right rejected what is universally known about God, or they have altered it to suit their own notions of what they want God to be. The reason you can't see scripture addressing what happens to a God loving person in ignorance is because there is no such thing as a God loving person in ignorance. We love because he first loved us. Any true love we have towards God is first prompted by a true understanding of God's grace towards us. Now your objection to this is to point to various devout people within false religions. But that is the exact thing which Romans 1 does indeed address. These people in false religions have no love for the TRUE God, but rather they have shaped God to fit their on "fuitile speculations" and have created a God in their own images in the "image of corruptible man." They have "exchanged the truth of God for a lie." There is none who love the true God outside of the revelation of God in scripture and the grace given from him for us to do so. When he grants us "repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim 2:25). A second major error in your thinking, and where you depart from historical Christian thinking is your failure to see the promises of the Messiah as the Old Testament means of trusting in Christ. Christianity has taught that as the Old Testament saints trusted upon the coming Messiah they were trusting upon Christ. No, they did not know that his name would be Jesus but they still were trusting upon him. The promise of the coming seed extends all the way back to the fall of mankind as God held forth Christ as the promised seed of the woman to those who would hope upon the promise and be saved. Your failure to accept this biblical and historical Christian teaching forces you to look to strange ideas to speculate how an Old Testament Jew was saved. These are two major missunderstanding you have which makes any discussion over specifics built about sound understanding in these errors completely impossible. You presumptions are simply foreign to the historical Christian faith and contrary to what scripture teaches. In addition you threw out all my careful explination of Romans 1 and simply told me how you feel it should be interpreted with no real exegesis defending your statment. Your responses were full of statemetns such as... "I see the passage you pointed to in 2 Cor 5:10 as speaking..." "I see Jesus dying for the sins of the world and judgment for the unsaved at the..." "I don’t think he fits in the same category." "My view of Romans 1:18-32 is..." "because to me this situation..." Everything you say is defended by how you think, see, or feel. No conversation can be constructive until you take your views, thoughts, and feelings and put them forward for scripture to utterly anhilate if it contrary to it. I say all this for the sole purpose of trying to explain why I can not answer your questions. There are too many things keeping you from the answers. I'm sorry. |
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8 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | Beja | 232660 | ||
EdB, I keep writing replies and deleting them because they all sound insulting and condescending. I really am sorry for that. But I no longer know how to give you a reply that is not so. I can not believe that you can look at that post and not identify the correct paragraph. I am even more dumbfounded that you can not understand that I am telling you to look at a different paragraph in the post other than the one you are looking at. I can not communicate with you. Do you not think this thread has gone long enough and perhaps we should just let it die? Yet rest assured, somebody will come along and read this thread and think to be able to speak to you. You will not be satisfied with their answer and you will restate your entire case all over again. I plead with you to resist doing so. Lets let the thread die. Surely you see nothing edifying will likely come from it. We have answered you, you find the answers unconvincing, why go on? In Christ, Beja |
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9 | God's fair standards to judge evildoers | John 5:28 | EdB | 232671 | ||
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