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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | DD4Truth | 226852 | ||
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2 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226854 | ||
DD4Truth, I was very much considering not responding at all when I read your post due to the sheer number of things you have gotten wrong. I know of no other way to say it. However, for the many reading this post I intend to take the time to respond to your many mistakes. This might take more than one reply. 1. First it is ironic that you bring up Abraham, since that is Paul's mighty proof for salvation by faith alone in Romans Chapter 4. Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." Rom 4:10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; Rom 4:11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, First he states from Genesis God's declaration upon Abraham that he was righteous. Paul then asks the pivotal question, "How then was it credited?" In other words was he declared righteous while he was circumcised or prior to the obedience of circumcision? As we look at the biblical account Paul notes that it was prior to Abraham's obedience of circumcision. Paul states that the circumcision was the display of the righteousness which Abraham already had, which was granted by faith alone. Read the first 8 verses of Romans 4 to confirm this. 2. You completely miss scriptures intent when you say that Christ taught the law must be kept to merit eternal life. But also importantly you mishandle scripture. You take a parable which does not make clear intent to teach this particular doctrine and you use that parable to override clear teaching of scripture elsewhere. Rom 3:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. Now affirmed by all who have any sense is the truth that we take the clear teachings of scripture and use them to help us understand the unclear teachings of scripture. So your first fault is your hermeneutics. You then show missunderstanding of what I profess. I deny that any man will see God without holiness, or sanctification. Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. I believe entirely that obedience is a crucial part of our salvation. The question is does our obedience merit our salvation or does our salvation prompt our obedience? The testimony of scripture is that our obedience flows from God, it is not our obedience that brings us to God or rather it is not our obedience which lays hold of what Christ has purchased us. I consider previous verses cited such as 1 John 3:9 to be sufficient for this. I would add to the list Ephesians 2:8-10 which says that we are saved by grace by faith unto good works, or rather for good works, NOT because of good works by means of good works. 3. You missunderstand what Christ accomplished in freeing us from the law. Christ did not change what was right and wrong. Christ freed us from the condemnation of the law, not the morality of the law. Let me defend that with a passage. 1Ti 1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 1Ti 1:10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 1Ti 1:11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. Now, here Paul makes mention of a wrong use of the law, and a rightful use of the law. What is the rightful use of the law? He quite clearly states that the right use of the law is the restraining of all these various things. But how does he identify these things? He states these things plus "whatever is contrary to sound teaching according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God". Do you hear this? The right application of the old testament law is for restraining things that are CONTRARY to the GOSPEL. So when I use the law to restrain wickedness in a professing Christian, that is precisely what is the right way to use it. And in addition, Paul sets the law as the valid standard of things which we know are contrary to the gospel. So you err when you state that we are not under the morality of the law, but rather obedience to whatever commands happen to be given by Christ during his ministry. On the contrary, any violation of God's moral law revealed in the Old Testament is contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ. I will continue in a second post. |
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3 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | DD4Truth | 226876 | ||
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4 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226878 | ||
DD4Truth, Again, you string so many verses together pulled out of all theological context that it would take me hours and once again multiple posts to correct each of them. I wash my hands of this and will only conclude by saying three things. First, that you and I do not disagree on a minor point, but you preach an entirely different gospel. Second, you stand outside of historical orthodox Christianity. And finally, I pray ( and I mean this seriously, I am praying to this end) that no reader will fall into your doctrine and thereby be condemned. Php 3:8,9 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Sola fide, Beja |
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5 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | DD4Truth | 226891 | ||
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6 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | stjohn | 226893 | ||
Food for thought... No one ever does anything outside of their own nature. For example, I have the nature of a man. I cannot choose to breathe water like a fish. My nature is man, not fish. Fish cannot choose to be like men. A dog follows its nature in being dog-like. It cannot choose to be like a bird, for the qualities of being bird-like do not reside within the dog. Now, what I do, like all men, is choose only those things that seem good to me. In fact, you cannot force me to do anything. If you hold a gun to my head, and order me to do something, this will result in an evaluation. I will see that disobedience might get me killed, a condition I deem as "not-good." Compliance might spare my life, a condition I deem as good. So I comply. You have not forced me, you have only adjusted the condition from which I make my decisions. (Of course, I have to have a sufficient understanding of guns, and enough certainty that the threat is real.) God looks down through the annals of time. What does He see? He sees that no one does good, that no one seeks Him, that no one seeks truth (Psalm 53:1-3). God is far from their thoughts (Psalm 10:4), and their highest, noblest efforts at righteousness are utterly foul in His sight (Isaiah 64:6). Man sins by choice and as a matter of course from his very nature. Sin fills every aspect of his being from head to toe (Isaiah 1:5-6). His heart and mind is filled with it (Ecclesiastes 9:3; Ephesians 4:17-19; Titus 1:15; 1 Timothy 3:8, 6:5). "The heart is more deceitful than anything else, and desperately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9). There remains no good in men (Romans 7:18). Man is basically evil, not good. His heart is as hard as stone (Ezekiel 11:19; Jeremiah 23:29). Man imagines that he is only sick, but the Bible says he is dead (Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2:13). Man feels he is, at worst, near-sighted, but Scripture says he is blind (2 Corinthians 3:14). Man shrugs off his vices as minor, but the Word says he is a slave (John 8:44; Ephesians 2:2; 2 Timothy 2:26). That is what God sees looking down through the annals of time. There is nothing -- nothing at all -- in lost people that make them worthy of salvation. Absolutely nothing. They deserve eternal damnation. Lost people are dead per the fall. They are completely without God and, in fact, see God as an enemy, one who has usurped their sovereignty. They will never see obedience to God as a good thing; therefore they will never choose it. They’re utterly unable to make good, moral choices. God, also, cannot be different than His nature allows. He can only be what He is. His holiness is such that none can stand before Him at judgment and be counted righteous unless they are really and truly righteous, for God will never excuse the guilty (Exodus 34:7). Nevertheless, before creation, God decided beforehand to lovingly set apart a people for Himself, but not as a result of anything worthy in them (Amos 3:2; Matthew 7:23; John 10:14; Ephesians 1:4-5). Salvation is a gift of God (Romans 6:23) for which He alone receives all the glory, all the credit (Isaiah 43:11; Ephesians 2:10). Wages are given to people because they've earned the wage (John 4:36). If a person does something to earn a gift, it ceases to be a gift, but a wage. Even faith is a gift (Ephesians 2:8). Because of the fallen nature of our hearts, there is a strong desire to garner at least a tiny bit of the credit for our salvation. It certainly is understandable why those sorts of teachings are popular. However, the teaching of "foreseen faith" has no Biblical basis, nor does it have a logical foundation. Man obeys God as a result of salvation, not to gain it, if that were the case then according to scripture, no one would be saved. By the way, just saying you are not guilty of something, does not make it so... -John |
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7 | What does the word"believe"involve | John 3:16 | Beja | 226894 | ||
John, I have folders where I drop things on certain topics for the purpose of future edification of either myself or others. That was so well said I am cutting and paisting it. In Christ, Beja |
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