Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | No Fruit? | John 15:8 | humbledbyhisgrace | 205457 | ||
Val, I went back and read your other post after seeing this one. I may have misunderstood you. I thought you were pointing out (with your question) that in fact fruit did consist of preaching the gospel and the conversion of new believers. I may still be confused on what you are asking so correct me if I'm still misunderstanding :-) Are you saying and/or asking, because Christ had not died yet that the fruit of a disciple would not include the gospel message? If so, are we to believe the revelation that had been given them was only partial? What would we include in "all things that I have heard from My Father"? John 15:15 (NASB) "No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. Again, if I'm misunderstanding just turn me around :-) It's late and I'm cross eyed right now :-) Steve |
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2 | No Fruit? | John 15:8 | Val | 205462 | ||
Dear Steve, Yes I think you are misunderstanding me. Starting from the beginning: Steve - you ask an application question using John 15:8 Doc - said before we can answer that we need to look at the context of the verse by looking at chapters 14,15 and 16 and the defination of "fruit". My question is not so much how to answer your application question but what the verse John 15:8 means. I read the 3 chapters and looked up some cross references for fruit, like you my time is limited. I also read Doc's slice it and dice it post. My question is two-fold - what did this verse mean to the 12 disciples? 2) what does it mean for me? When I look at how Jesus interacted with the disciples, He first, number one - called them. He said "follow Me" and to some He said "I will make you fishers of men". So I see He called them first. This was the first step. They laid down what they were doing and followed Him. This to me was a response to that call. Are you with me so far? Then, after this encounter with each of the twelve, Christ began to teach them who He was and what He was all about. Also what He expected from them. Love is very much one of the themes of the book of John as Brother John pointed out. Ok, now to application to me - how am I to obey this verse in my life. I have heard Christ's call to me. I responsed by following Him and all that entails. Now tell me when He said go and make disciples, my question is: Is the fruit He is talking about in 15:8 would the first step not be a call to follow Christ. Do I not go to those around me and say "follow Christ". Depending upon their response, discipleship would follow or begin. This is my point, the disciples were to go and make disciples - bearing fruit. Wouldn't the call come first to the people they are sent to. Call them to follow Jesus. Milk before the meat. I am thinking the first thing I can do to make disciples is to tell them about Jesus - as Paul said I preach nothing but Christ crucified.(death, burial, resurrection) Then they were admonished to walk in the truth that was theirs. Walk in the fruit of the spirit that was theirs because they were born again. I guess thats my point is one has to be born again before they can bear fruit. As for your application question, moving on if we do not bear fruit, I IMHO would apply the verse in this way. Witness to an individual and then if the reponse is negative, move on to another individual. Of course continue to pray for that person but realize that God is still working on them and maybe I should back off until they are ready to hear either from me or someone else. As to ministry - when to move on - prayer I think is the key - everything we do is bathed in prayer - being sensitive to hearing God's answer is key. I know particularly in my area church's are splitting one right after another. Its so sad. I know God can use it but what bothers me is the unchristian like behavior of the leaders and the layman. Do you understand any better what I was asking? Blessings Val |
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3 | No Fruit? | John 15:8 | humbledbyhisgrace | 205479 | ||
Greetings Sister Val, Thanks again for the response! I don't know about you but I'm enjoying the discussion :-) I think fruit here is broad in it's meaning. I think the making of disciples is one measure of fruit. But to say we must first make disciples would limit the application of the meaning. Abiding in Him is much much more then making disciples. It is as He says John 15:9-10 (NASB) 15:9 "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. You said something I want to key on to stir some thought on this as I believe it applies to what is meant by fruit. You said " Ok, now to application to me - how am I to obey this verse in my life. I have heard Christ's call to me. I responsed by following Him and all that entails." Keep in mind I am not judging you okay :-) But when you say you responded by following Him and ALL THAT ENTAILS I have to wonder, has any one of us actually reached "all that entails"? What need of pruning is there if we have? If making new disciples were the only fruit then I could see the constant need of pruning. But there is more to it then making disciples. It is keeping all His commandments! Not just once or twice but at all times. The more we are pruned, the more we become like Christ. Consider this. My original question would be much easier to answer if the measure of fruit were only new converts. This is one of the reasons I struggle with where I am at because it is much more then that. Even if it were, I would still be left with trying to understand if it is God leading me on to something else or is it me, not abiding in Him as I should. But there is one thing you said that really stands out to me and I want to thank you for the reminder. I thank you for all your thoughts on this but this is important. You said "prayer I think is the key - everything we do is bathed in prayer - being sensitive to hearing God's answer is key." Yes it is! And not that I don't know this, but perhaps I have found myself thinking my way through this too much instead of spending more time in prayer. Thanks for the precious reminder! Steve |
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4 | No Fruit? | John 15:8 | Val | 205495 | ||
Dear Steve, I got out my old Precept workbook on John and I looked closer at Chapter 15:1-8. It says this is an allegory. It focuses on the vineyard and gave cross-references of Isaiah 5:1-7, Psalms 80:8-16, Ezekiel 15:1-5. It also listed some facts from Andrew Murray’s “The True Vine”. There were about 14 facts listed. Here are a few: A vine must have a husbandman to plant and to watch over it. It is dependent on the husbandman for the place that it grows, its protective hedge, its watering, and its pruning. A vine must have branches to bear fruit. A branch is wood brought forth from the vine for the sole purpose of bearing fruit. My thoughts were on the first few posts about “making disciples”. My point was that one had to be born again before they can bear fruit. Sorry if I mudded the water. Blessings, Val |
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