Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Paul our pattern to follow, not Jesus? | Luke 24:46 | Bereaniam | 169522 | ||
Since Paul, the apostle said: "my gospel" will judge the secrets of men hearts; follow me as I follow Christ; the things that you have learned, received, heard, and seen in me do, you DO; Paul said I am your pattern to follow, and since the gospel was given to Paul to us Gentiles straight from Jesus (Paul said no man taught him "my gospel"), doesn't those scriptures tell us (Gentiles) that the scriptures Paul wrote (Romans - Hebrews) should govern and guide us in our Christian walk? Paul reiterates many old covenant principles and all of the ten commandments in his epistles except for the 4th(Sabbath). Though Paul said to follow him as he follows Christ, I do not believe Paul means Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus of Nazareth was born under the law Gal 4. I believe Paul means the resurrected Christ who said he had a more excellent ministry. Bereaniam |
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2 | Paul our pattern to follow, not Jesus? | Luke 24:46 | mark d seyler | 169523 | ||
Luke 24:46 and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, The Christ Who was resurrected is the same as Who was born of Mary, and Who died on the cross. To separate the One Who died from the One Who raised from the dead is not Scriptural. Jesus came to show us the Father, and show us the Father He did. Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | Paul our pattern to follow, not Jesus? | Luke 24:46 | Bereaniam | 169570 | ||
Hi Mark, I am soooo sorry...evidently I did not communicate my view very well. I certainly did not mean Jesus was two different people. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit is the same yesterday, today and forever...but their means of dealing with humanity are VERY different during the different dispensations. If you are a Gentile, Jesus was not sent to you as He walked on this earth as Jesus of Nazareth,Mat15:24, Mat 10:5, Mat 6:31,32, Jhn4:9). Jesus kept the law, all 613, wore tassels, was circumcised, tithed, agreed w/stoning disobedient children, etc. That's the Jesus I meant we do not follow. IICor 5:16 says though we have known Jesus after the flesh ,as Jesus of Nazareth, henceforth know we Him NO MORE!!! Heb. 8:6 says NOW he (Jesus) obtained a more excellent ministry....a mediator of a BETTER covenant...established on BETTER promises. God will always be omnipotent, all loving, omnipresent, omniscience, etc., etc..., but He does not deal with mankind today who has received His divinity in their humanity the way He dealt with Adam, Noah,Abraham,Moses, the prophets, etc. I noticed you did not address the fact that Paul says over and over in his epistles that he is our pattern to follow...which is what my question was...should we as Gentiles govern our daily Christian walk by the epistles Paul wrote (Romans through Hebrews? Read Rm 2:16 and 16:25,1Tim1:16, 2Tim 2:8 1Cor4:15,16, Act9:15,Gal 1:11, Ep3:2, Rm11:13, Act 22:21 and 26:16, there R others. Yes Jesus came to show us the Father... Our Father's attributes do not change, BUT His program and how He deals with us sure does change (read Heb 7:12). In Him and He in me |
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4 | Paul our pattern to follow, not Jesus? | Luke 24:46 | mark d seyler | 169578 | ||
I'm not sure you understand the manner in which Jesus came to us. He came to show us the Father, Who is over all dispensations. Speaking directly to dispensationalism, (which I believe in, although not to the extreme that some do) Hebrews tells us: Heb 1:1 In many ways and in various ways of old, God spoke to the fathers in the prophets; Heb 1:2 in these last days He spoke to us in the Son, God expresses Himself to mankind in Jesus Christ, and the new "dispensation" is through Jesus, and not through Paul. Heb 1:3 who (Jesus) being the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image of His essence, Jesus was, and is,a full and complete communication. You can 'not know Paul', and 'know Jesus', and have complete knowledge of God (so much as is possible for man), but you cannot 'know Paul', and 'not know Jesus', and know God. Jesus is the full expression of the Father, and Paul is not. That notwithstanding, look at what Paul wrote: 1 Cor 11:1 "Be imitators of me, as I am also of Christ." Paul tells us that he imitates Christ. If we imitate Paul, we will do the same as he does, and we will imitate Christ, as Paul does. Ephesians tells us this straight out: Eph 5:1 "Then become imitators of God, as beloved children," - we know God through Jesus. When the disciples said "show us the Father", Jesus answered "he who has seen Me has seen the Father." Paul does not tell us to imitate him, and not imitate Jesus. 1 Th 1:6 "And you became imitators of us and of the Lord" The New Covenant established by Jesus is definately a better convenant, but the New Covenant is what Jesus spent his life on earth showing us. The Old Covenant was a system of external behaviors and practices, but the New Covenant is of internal change. Jesus showed us that we need to be changed, born from above, with a new heart. Paul explained to us that we need to be born with His life, the life of Jesus in us. Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, the One loving me and giving Himself over on my behalf. Paul does not write that we will Paul's life, but that we will life Jesus' life. If we are to live the life of Jesus in our own bodies, then certainly we can look to the life Jesus lived as our example, our model to follow. In spite of the externals, there never was any different way that we come to God, subsequent to the fall, other than by faith in the Redeemer. It always was, and always will be, by faith through Jesus' substitutionary atoning sacrifice. Look at how Jesus interacted with people. Look at how Jesus served and worshipped the Father. Look at His self-denial and sacrifice. He is our perfect example, and worthy of all emulation. But I could hardly say it better than did John the Apostle: John 1 14 And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and of truth. 15 John witnesses concerning Him, and has cried out, saying, This One was He of whom I said, He coming after me has been before me, for He was preceding me. 16 And out of His fullness we all received, and grace on top of grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One declares Him. I hope this helps! Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | Paul our pattern to follow, not Jesus? | Luke 24:46 | Bereaniam | 169591 | ||
Hi Mark again, Your notes are certainly informative and inspirational. I am not expressing what I feel in my heart I think. I love Jesus..I'm not quite there yet, but I want to get to the place where I can say for me to LIVE is CHRIST! My persistent prayer is for God to give me a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of this treasure (Jesus) in my earthen vessel. I want to know HIM with a knowing that transcends my understanding!! You said "the new dispensation is through Jesus, not Paul" . Paul said ...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. 1Cor 9:17 We don't have to follow everything Jesus of Nazareth did,because He was born under the law Gal4:4. Paul said those things that you have learned, received, heard, and seen in me DO!That seems like EVERYTHING! Jesus HAD to keep the law, we don't HAVE to for our righteousness. You did get my point about Paul as he said to follow him AS he followed Christ. You said "the new covenant is what Jesus spent his life on earth showing us." YES HE did. But not EVERYTHING He did are we required to do. Love you brother, Bereaniam |
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6 | Paul our pattern to follow, not Jesus? | Luke 24:46 | mark d seyler | 169600 | ||
I am realizing now from reading your other posts why it has been so difficult trying to answer your questions. Its not so much that you are trying to ask a question for the sake of receiving an answer, but that you are asking questions as a cover for pushing an agenda. You are asking a question to receive a particular answer, and when you don't receive that answer, you fault the other party. As for myself, I find it to be much more beneficial to simply make your point in the beginning, and let us discuss it in an up front sort of way. Love in Christ, Mark |
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7 | Paul our pattern to follow, not Jesus? | Luke 24:46 | Bereaniam | 169603 | ||
Hi Mark, I just started posting at this site...I am very new at this. The reason I came is because someone has presented the "Why Paul" question to me. I thought if I came here, I could get more input from brothers and sisters who study and not just read their bibles. I am truly looking for an answer because when it was presented to me, it did seem plausible. Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety. Prov 11:14 Thanks for the info on how to use this site in a more prudent way. Bereaniam |
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