Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is God's forgiveness conditional? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15195 | ||
Dear forum members, What do you think? Is Matthew 6:15 for Christians? Is forgiveness conditional after the cross? Or is it unconditional? |
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2 | Is God's forgiveness conditional? | Matt 6:15 | Sandman | 15201 | ||
Hey Bill, "In Matthew 6:14-15, Jeus gives a startling warning about forgiveness: if we refuse to forgive others, God will also refuse to forgive us. Why? Because when we don't forgive others, we are denying our common ground as sinners in need of God's forgiveness. God's forgiveness of sin is NOT a direct result of us forgiving others, but it IS based on our realizing what forgiveness means (check out Ephesians 4:32). Also, withholding forgiveness sets a person outside and above Christ's law of love." I paraphrased this from my NIV Life App. Study Bible. To answer your questions, YES, I believe Matthew 6:15 applies to Christians. And instead of spelling out whether forgiveness is conditional or unconditional, I believe the true meaning of the verse is to show the WRONG attitude or mindset to have about forgiveness. Sandman |
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3 | Are we forgiven? Does anyone know? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15206 | ||
Dear Sandman, Thanks for your comment but I still do not think that it applies after the cross. While we were yet sinners, Christ reconciled us to God, not holding our sins against us - 2 Cor 5:19. Is God still holding your sins against you, Sandman? He says that He is not. Why? Because He held them against Jesus Christ. My Lord became sin for me so that I could become His righteousness. I am not denying my common ground that I was a sinner and needed God's forgiveness. But now, because I am born again from above, I am no longer a sinner, I am a saint who still sins. I know it sounds sacriligeous, but it's not. Most of Paul's letters were written to churches that had severe problems and had "sin in the assembly". But you never see Paul saying, "To the sinners saved by grace at Corinth," "To the sinners saved by grace at Ephesus." I am a new creation in Christ. The old Bill Mc without God's spirit was crucified and I am now a saint, not because of my actions, but because of my new birth. I am a forgiven person in Christ, just as I am a redeemed person in Christ. Forgiveness is not something that we can have apart from Christ. If we have Him, we have forgiveness of sins. Look again at Eph 1:7 and Col 1:14. How is redemption defined there? Forgiveness of sins. It says that we HAVE (present tense) redemption, the forgiveness of sins, does it not? Would I have faith in God if, everytime I sinned, I asked God to redeem me? Would I have faith in God if, every time I sinned, I asked God to save me? No. Faith is taking God at His Word. All I can do is receive it and spend the rest of eternity thanking Him for it. Neither is it faith to ask God to keep forgiving me when He says that, in Christ, He has already done it. That's not faith, that's negating the cross. That's relegating Christ's blood to that of a bull or goat, that can only 'cover' sin until the next time. That's living under the old covenant where you have to keep coming to God and asking for more and more forgiveness and never realizing what He has done. So, could you do me a big favor and respond to my questions? (See my prior post and the associated verses) I would appreciate it. You can't say that 1. God only forgives us IF we forgive others AND 2. All of our sins are forgiven. Both of these statements cannot be true at the same time. They are mutually exclusive. Do you believe Heb 10:17 - that our sins are remembered no more? Let me offer a note of clarification here. I am not saying that because my sins are forgiven, that I can just go on willfully 'sinning' with no consequences. Paul addresses this in Romans 6. If I continue 'practicing sin' I will become a slave to it. Sin will affect my soul (behavior), my body, and most of all, others who I love. It will also misrepresent the wonderful grace in which I stand and exhibit a poor witness to others. So, sin DOES have consequences. I will suffer them if I walk after the flesh and fulfill its lust. BUT, sin does not affect my spiritual relationship to God. My Lord and Savior shed every precious drop of His blood to take away the sin issue between me and God so that I could be reconciled to Him. I DO NOT take that lightly. I've been accused of being 'light on sin.' Hardly, I know exactly what it cost my Lord to purchase my salvation and my ONLY righteousness is that which He gives me. So my goal now is to let Christ live through me and present myself to Him as a living sacrifice. I'm not 'light on sin.' But I can tell you that where sin abounds, grace MUCH MORE abounds. I'm big on God's grace. If that is perceived as a fault or heresy, so be it. In closing, please answer my questions. Me and my convictions are always up to questioning. But God's Word is pretty plain on this issue. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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4 | Are we forgiven? Does anyone know? | Matt 6:15 | glory777 | 15212 | ||
BillMc- But then you have the episode where Jesus is washing Peter's feet and tells him in essence, that, although he has salvation, he does need a foot washing every so often. And what about the verse that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins? I think what you are talking about is that yes, we are saved, but we need the confession and asking God to forgive us, thanking Him for His forgiveness and knowing that He died for the sin we committed and so we WERE forgiven. However, if we don't confess our sin, we have broken fellowship with Him. Our forgiveness is waiting, but if we don't acknowledge that we need it and have it, we don't get it, our fellowship remains broken. Debbie |
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5 | Are we forgiven? Does anyone know? | Matt 6:15 | Sandman | 15216 | ||
Dear Bill, I agree with most everything you have to say, and I think you may have misunderstood me. To answer your first question: does God still hold my sin against me? Of course not, and I never claimed that he did. "For Christ died for sins, ONCE FOR ALL (1 Peter 3:18)" No need to crucify him again. He has paid the price for all sins for all time. Second, I never said that YOU were denying your common ground as a sinner. I said that to believe that you need not forgive your brother is to deny such common ground. I merely interpreted the verse. My response implied no personal application whatsoever. However, I believe that the moment I refuse to forgive my brother, I have denied my common ground as a sinner, set myself outside and above Christ's law of love, etc. In Ephesians 1:7, redemption is defined as the "redemption through blood." This gives the image of the Old-Testament definition of redemption: the price paid to set a slave free from bondage (Leviticus 25:47-54). Through his death, Christ paid the price to release us from the bondage of sin. Forgiveness in the Old Testament is defined as the shedding of blood for the remission of sins (Leviticus 17:11). Jesus' blood represents the PERFECT and FINAL sacrifice. Jesus' sacrifice brings pardon, deliverance, and freedom (Romans 3:25, 5:9, Ephesians 2:13, Colossians 1:20). You forgot one thing in your list of questions. Would you have faith in God if, everytime you sinned, you asked for forgiveness? YES!!!!! Millions of people, including Christ (Matthew 6:12, Luke 11:4), make this an integral part of their prayer life. If, as you suggest, forgiveness comes with redemption and justification (as a "one-time" package), then why does Jesus teach us to pray about it? Notice the parallel between Luke 11:4 and Matthew 6:15. Luke 11:4 says "Forgive us our sins, FOR WE ALSO forgive everyone else who sins against us." It does not say, "Forgive our sins because we know you'd only do so once we forgive others." No, it says, "Forgive us our sins while we get on our horse and do our Christ-given duty of forgiving our brothers." The two events are INDEPENDENT, one does not cause the other. So in reference to your mutually exclusive statements, I agree with the second one. And I'd like to point out that I never once supported the first one. This is why I further disagree with your statement that sin plays no role in our relationship with God. Sin separates us from God (1 John 1:6). Debbie touched on this. Again, the purpose of Christ's words in Matthew 6:15 are the same as the purpose of John's words in 1 John 2:9 - to show us the correct mindset of forgiveness that we should have with others. I agree with you on everything else. I agree that at a believer's conversion, all sins are forgiven - past, present, and future. Forgiven in the sense that God will no longer hold them against us in judgment (Hebrews 10:17, Hebrews 9:25-28, 1 John 1:9). This is the HEART OF GOD'S FORGIVENESS - it frees us from the slavery we endure as unbelievers in our sinful nature. However, we as humans need to be constantly reminded that we need to EXERCISE EFFORT in continually forgiving our brothers. The whole purpose of the first 4 paragraphs is to clear up any misunderstanding that might be interpreted from my first post. I truly appreciate your commentaries and insight on this verse, because as I have presented and defended my viewpoint, I have also learned from the information you have given. Sandman |
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