Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15272 | ||
Dear fellow believers, I have stated my view of the forgiveness issue and 1 John 1:9 as briefly and 'apologetically' as I can. I do appreciate everyone's feedback and responses. I would like to say that I DO NOT feel that this issue should divide the church. I do not regard anyone as 'mislead' if they do not believe the same way that I do concerning this issue. The difference can be summed up as follows: 1) I believe that I am a forgiven person as are ALL believers. I do still sin but my sins ARE forgiven. My sins were ALL forgiven at the cross 2000 years ago only by Christ shedding His blood, not by my confession of them. I had committed none of those sins 2000 years ago when He died, but I believe that the cross was an eternal act of God (Christ was slain before the foundation of the world) and that He saw and bore ALL my sins in His body back then. And that His blood washed them ALL away. In other words, it is a done deal just like my redemption, reconciliation, justification, etc. I believe that I have been (past tense) reconciled to God and that, because of Christ sacrifice, my sins are no longer held against me. 2) Some on this forum believe that forgiveness must continually be asked for as sins are committed. They infer that Christ administers forgiveness only at repentance, whether believers or not. They also feel that if a Christian doesn't forgive others, then they will not be forgiven. They believe in keeping short accounts with God so that they do not lose fellowship with Him. While I disagree with this view, I do understand it and used it to keep myself clean before the Lord and in fellowship for 30 years (or so I thought). I, obviously, no longer hold to that view for reasons that I have stated here. But, believers, the bottom line is that only Christ can forgive sins. I think we all agree to that. We just disagree as to the timing of that forgiveness. That's Ok. It's time to move on... Blessings in Christ to all, Bill Mc |
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2 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Makarios | 15346 | ||
Greetings Bill! I would have responded much more quickly if I didn't have a job working 2nd shift. I apologize if my 2 posts on this issue were taken as an "attack", and no, I do not think of you as a heretic! :) Bill, I think that we are misunderstanding each other here and using Scripture to try to correct each other when we need to stand back and see where we actually agree.. You have stated.. "1) I believe that I am a forgiven person as are ALL believers. I do still sin but my sins ARE forgiven. My sins were ALL forgiven at the cross 2000 years ago only by Christ shedding His blood, not by my confession of them. I had committed none of those sins 2000 years ago when He died, but I believe that the cross was an eternal act of God (Christ was slain before the foundation of the world) and that He saw and bore ALL my sins in His body back then. And that His blood washed them ALL away. In other words, it is a done deal just like my redemption, reconciliation, justification, etc. I believe that I have been (past tense) reconciled to God and that, because of Christ sacrifice, my sins are no longer held against me." And I agree with this 100 percent! You have also stated, "2) Some on this forum believe that forgiveness must continually be asked for as sins are committed. They infer that Christ administers forgiveness only at repentance, whether believers or not. They also feel that if a Christian doesn't forgive others, then they will not be forgiven. They believe in keeping short accounts with God so that they do not lose fellowship with Him." No, I am not saying that we are keeping "short accounts" with God. I believe that you are correct in what you have said! But my argument is that when a Christian does sin, they must repent of that sin (divorce themselves from it), be at peace that Christ has forgiven them of that sin, and go and sin no more. I do believe that He has forgiven all of our sins before they have ever been committed. What I am trying to say is that repentance is still something that is essential for the believer as it is the non-believer who comes to Christ. And by reading the posts that were written after this post that I am replying to, I would come to the conclusion that you would agree with this. Blessings to you and keep up the good work on the Forum, my friend. Nolan |
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3 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15365 | ||
Dear Nolan, Thanks for your response, brother. I appreciate your clarification on your position. And, Nolan, my comments about "some on this forum" were not aimed specifically at you. 1 John 1:9 comes up quite often in the queue, as I'm sure you know, and the 'keeping short accounts' is usually the reponse. Please permit me to clarify my view of repentance. I do believe in repentance, brother, but I think that true repentance is changing your mind concerning what you think about God and Jesus Christ and what He has done. Why do I think this? Because until we see God for who He really is, Christ as our total righteousness, and ourselves (before salvation) as dead in sin, we will not come to Him. Most of the scriptures you listed for repentance support this idea. As I understand it, repentance is much more than making promises to God that we will not sin. Why? Because, if we are honest with ourselves, as long as we are in these unredeemed bodies and being 'matured' in Christ, we still have the capacity to sin and we will do so (prayerfully less and less as we walk in the Spirit). So if repentance is a measure of how much or how little we sin, we will NEVER, on this earth, truly repent of every sin. If all I am concerned with is 'cleaning up my act,' it will never be totally clean. I believe that true repentance is allowing God to change our minds through the renewing of it by His Word. Paul said, "Walk in the Spirit (allow Him to be your complete source) and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh." He didn't say that the desires of the flesh would go away (I assure you that they do not) but we WON'T fulfill them AS we walk in the Spirit. Only as our minds are exposed to the truth of God will our actions follow. Otherwise, Satan keeps us so busy 'keeping our sins confessed' and 'staying right with God' that all we ever focus on is ourselves. Christ calls us to come to Him and His sufficiency. Our actions may or may not change overnight. It is different with different people. The changing of our actions is involved in the process we frequently call sanctification. That is different from repentance. Repentance is seeing God's truth and accepting it. Sanctification is the 'working out' of the truth. If all we focus on is outward actions, then the Pharisees were righteous. But Jesus buried them. He said that God is primarily concerned with our hearts. As our hearts are changed, our actions will follow. Thanks for your comments. As I previously stated, I don't believe 1 John 1:9 should split Christian brothers and sisters. There is so many questions on this passage because of the double-talk we give to people about forgiveness. What I do have a problem with is the 'altar call' attitude of "come forward, get ALL of your sins forgiven, and get in fellowship with God. Now that you've accepted Christ and His forgiveness, you need to keep yourself forgiven through confession or you'll lose that fellowship with God." That's double-talk. If we want to preach that in our churches, we should tell all of it. If that if what we believe, we should tell people, "Come forward and get only your PAST sins forgiven. All your future ones still need to be confessed and forgiven. And, fellowship with God? Well, you will be doomed to being in and out of it for the rest of your earthly life because, as you know, you will never completely stop sinning until Christ calls you home." That kind of a message is not 'good news.' And I don't believe it is the truth. Christ did so much more for us than we often give Him credit for. Why not tell people, "I've got some good news for you. You were born dead to God, separated from Him. But Christ has done a wonderful thing! He has reconciled you to God. Your sins will no longer keep you from God. And if you believe it to be true, then God Himself will come inside you and LIVE there. He will never leave you, He will never forsake you. And nothing shall separate you from His love. Nothing. Will He change you? You bet. He loves you to much to leave you the way you are. Allow Him to do it." Now that's good news! Blessings in Christ, Bill Mc |
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4 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Makarios | 15442 | ||
Excellent post Bill! And I totally am in agreement with you there, that we cannot attain to any level of 'perfection' while we are here on this earth. I agree: a changed heart is exactly what is needed after repentance (1 Samuel 10:9)! Excellent post! Blessings, Nolan |
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