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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15194 | ||
Dear Steve, I'm sure I'll be flailed alive for this one but you asked... Consider: Eph 1:7 In Him we have (present tense) redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace. Eph 4:32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven (past tense) you. Col 1:14 in whom we have (present tense) redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven (past tense) us all (ALL) our transgressions, 1 John 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven (past tense)you for His name's sake. Heb 9:26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Heb 10:17 "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." Heb 10:18 Now where there is forgiveness (present tense) of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. Acts 10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." Luke 23:34 But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." Did the Father answer this prayer? Did He forgive us? Upon what basis did He forgive us? Heb 9:22 makes it clear that the shedding of blood is the ONLY thing that provides forgiveness. I don't believe that Christ was speaking to His crucifiers here. No one was there asking for forgiveness (not even the thief asked to have his sins forgiven). But Christ was born under law and He taught under law. If you are going to say that our forgiveness is now dependant upon whether or not we forgive others, you are going to have to rip out all these other verses that speak of forgiveness being past tense and something that every Christian professes. The ONLY way I have ever found to reconcile these passages is to understand the new covenant in Christ's blood that was shed for the remission of sins. Here's a challenge: Other than 1 John 1:9 that I believe Christians erroneously try to make applicable to believers as a 'bar of soap' to keep us clean before a holy God, find one, just one, other passage of scripture after Christ's death on the cross, where we are told to ask for forgiveness from God. (James 5:16 doesn't count because it is talking about confessing our sins to one another so we can be healed.) Was doesn't Paul (who wrote 2/3 of the NT) even once mention to ask God to forgive us for sins. Why not Peter? Surely he knew the importance of forgiveness. How did 1st century Christians ever stay in fellowship with God until 95 AD when 1 John was written? They must have all been out of fellowship with God for, gosh, 62 years! What do you think, Steve? In Christ, Bill Mc IN MY OPINION (based upon scripture), no it does not apply. |
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2 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15272 | ||
Dear fellow believers, I have stated my view of the forgiveness issue and 1 John 1:9 as briefly and 'apologetically' as I can. I do appreciate everyone's feedback and responses. I would like to say that I DO NOT feel that this issue should divide the church. I do not regard anyone as 'mislead' if they do not believe the same way that I do concerning this issue. The difference can be summed up as follows: 1) I believe that I am a forgiven person as are ALL believers. I do still sin but my sins ARE forgiven. My sins were ALL forgiven at the cross 2000 years ago only by Christ shedding His blood, not by my confession of them. I had committed none of those sins 2000 years ago when He died, but I believe that the cross was an eternal act of God (Christ was slain before the foundation of the world) and that He saw and bore ALL my sins in His body back then. And that His blood washed them ALL away. In other words, it is a done deal just like my redemption, reconciliation, justification, etc. I believe that I have been (past tense) reconciled to God and that, because of Christ sacrifice, my sins are no longer held against me. 2) Some on this forum believe that forgiveness must continually be asked for as sins are committed. They infer that Christ administers forgiveness only at repentance, whether believers or not. They also feel that if a Christian doesn't forgive others, then they will not be forgiven. They believe in keeping short accounts with God so that they do not lose fellowship with Him. While I disagree with this view, I do understand it and used it to keep myself clean before the Lord and in fellowship for 30 years (or so I thought). I, obviously, no longer hold to that view for reasons that I have stated here. But, believers, the bottom line is that only Christ can forgive sins. I think we all agree to that. We just disagree as to the timing of that forgiveness. That's Ok. It's time to move on... Blessings in Christ to all, Bill Mc |
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3 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Morant61 | 15275 | ||
Greetings Bill Mc! Thanks for your openess and willingness to share your view with us. I have always viewed 1 John 1:9 as a reference to Christians (and still may), but you have definitely given me some things to think about. Your strongest point was in asking what other passages ask Christians to confess their sins. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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