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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Would Adam and Eve have fallen? | Gen 3:13 | Vincent | 186725 | ||
Would Adam and Eve have fallen on their own if the devil had never entered the garden? | ||||||
2 | Would Adam and Eve have fallen? | Gen 3:13 | ebrain | 186915 | ||
Hi Vincent. Your question made me think that what follows might be of interest. May the Lord bless you, and keep you safe. ebrain. Subject: Fw: The Fall. The popular view on Genesis Ch 3, certainly in this Country is that Adam was a wimp, in that he did nothing to help his wife when she was tempted, however, my investigations have shown him to be a hero. I am interested to find out if others can arrive, or have arrived at the same conclusion. If you have not considered this matter,and wish to do so then I would suggest that you avoid human commentaries, and rely solely on the Divine commentary. The Bible is the best commentary there is on the Bible. Just look at what the word of God has to say else ware about Adam, Eve, and the fall. Good hunting. Yours in Christ. pabrain Time is somewhat limited at the moment, so I will have to be brief. Read Romans Ch 5 v 14. and ask yourself what is meant by Adam being a Type of Him who was to come? What did Jesus do to save His Bride, what did Adam do to save his Bride? Read 2 Cor Ch 5 v 21. "He who knew no sin permitted Himself to be made sin" Also don't forget that Adam was not deceived 2nd Tim Ch 2 v 14. He knew exactly what he was doing. Now how does v15 say that Eve would be saved?. Did Adam go to the tree to obtain the fruit as She did, no he went to her and took the fruit from her,,, he took her sin upon himself. Don't worry about the second part of v 6 of Gen Ch 3. I will explain that another time. Must close now. In Him pabrain My reason for asking this question in the first place was to find out if anyone else arrived at the same conclusion that I had. I once heard a Speaker describe Adam as "A hopeless, helpless, useless, spineless good for nothing, who did not even raise a finger to help his wife who he could clearly see was in danger of disobeying God". The Speaker went on to say that "Eve at least put up token resistance, and as we know from Scripture she was deceived, we also know that Adam was not deceived, which really puts him beneath contempt". All this I found difficult to accept, it did not gel, it did not seem to have the ring of truth. My approach was two fold, firstly from the Divine view point, and secondly from the Satanic view point. The Lord our God created/made all things in 6 days. His comment on the first 5 days was "It is good", regarding the 6th day He said "It is very good" This was the day in which He made man both the male, and the female. I do not think it would be an exaggeration to say that the making of man was for God "The supreme pinnacle of Divine creative genius". He made man in the image of God, and after His likeness, so what likeness of God does Adam display? hopeless, helpless? oh no never, never, not the God that I know. could we say to our Lord "Is this the best that You can do?" I think not. To be continued. In Him stbrain |
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3 | Would Adam and Eve have fallen? | Gen 3:13 | ebrain | 186916 | ||
Continuation. From the Satanic view point of wishing to destroy God's creation, he had 3 possible approaches, 1 the pair when they were together, 2 the man when he was by himself, or 3 the woman when she was by herself. Now which of these 3 do you think would be the most likely to succeed from the Devils' point of view. What is needed here of course is commentary, Divine commentary not man's opinion. Lets have a look then at Romans Ch 5 v 14. and also 1st Tim Ch 2 vs 13-15. We learn from Romans that Adam was a Type (Pattern)of Him who was to come, remember that The Lord Jesus who knew no sin permitted Himself to be made sin to save His Bride. 1st Timothy says that She(Eve) shall be saved in the childbearing. Now how much childbearing had she done?, non, can she fertilize herself ?, no. Now assuming that Adam was else ware at the time of the temptation, when he returned to his wife, he was horrified to see that she had fallen into temptation, she is now cut off from him, and lost for ever, as she is going to hell. Adam is still sinlessly perfect (As God had made him) and sinlessness can have no contact with sin. He loves his wife with a pure and holy love as no fallen man can have any idea of. The next generation of the Human race has not yet been started, and if it were not to be started then the kinsman redeemer could not be born into it. The only way in which mankind can continue, is if Adam becomes like Eve, a sinner, remember, he is not deceived, he knows just what he is doing. he does not go to the tree as she had done, but takes the fruit from her hand and partakes thereof. Symbolic of Jesus taking our sin to Himself Now what sort of likeness of God do we get. A Self sacrificing Hero who became sin for us, or a Wimp. I know which likeness I prefer, how about you. In Him stbrain I find myself in complete, and total agreement with what "stbrain" had to say. There are, however, two points that might be worth mentioning. Firstly some people will point out that Gen Ch 3 v 6b. says that "he was with her". Well of course he was with her, how else could he have taken the fruit from her in the first place?. He had to be there. Why is there no mention whatsoever of Adam in all the six verses, until after the fruit was taken by Eve?. Why is The Holy Spirit telling us the obvious?. Well perhaps He is not, it might just be His rather subtle way of telling us that Adam was not there all the time. Now the second point, Who told Adam how to save Eve?. I will tell you the answer to that one, when you tell me how Noah knew the difference between "Clean", and "Unclean" at Gen Ch 7 v 2. Yours in His service. pabrain. Note. Let me explain why I sometimes used "stbrain", and at other times "pabrain". The material above is taken from contributions I made some time ago to www.BibleStudy.com for some technical reason it was not always possible to go on line using pabrain, if that was the case I would then use stbrain. |
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4 | Would Adam and Eve have fallen? | Gen 3:13 | jlhetrick | 186931 | ||
ebrain, I find extreme difficulty with both your assumptions and your assertions made in post 186915 and continuation post 186916. I will not attempt to address every single point, just a couple of main points. You write: “I am interested to find out if others can arrive, or have arrived at the same conclusion.” Is it your belief that God has revealed a “conclusion” regarding the creation of man and the fall of man that is different from that commonly understood and believed by the Church for all the centuries? I ask in this way because you continue by suggesting that the reader “avoid human commentaries” and “rely solely on ‘divine’ commentary” and then set forth your own “commentary”. Very concerning because you really tell a story that seems far different than the one I see laid down in Scripture. This is not so hard a task for you or any other, it is a simple matter of picking and choosing verses to support your argument. Of course one would want those saints of God who have gone before you to be avoided, as they clearly include and address the whole of Scripture as it applies, rightly dividing the word of truth, teaching the word of God and not a new, individually arrived at “conclusion”. “The bible is the best commentary on the bible” is without a doubt the truth; but picking and choosing to support a position is the worst type of commentary. Forgive me for being so direct, I just have had about enough of this type of thing going on. Finally, you outright make the argument that Adam “saved his bride”. You do this in part by misquoting Scripture, a most dangerous and unacceptable thing. You wrote: “Did Adam go to the tree to obtain the fruit as She did, no he went to her and took the fruit from her…” Where do find that in Scripture????????????? Gen 3:6-7 (ESV) …she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate… Clearly different from your statement that Adam “went to her and took it from her”. And you assert that he did what he did not do in order to “save his bride” which he did not and had no capacity to do… Acts 4:11-12 (ESV) “This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." My friend, Adam in no way was a hero in taking Eve’s sin upon himself as you say. Quite the contrary, and as the Scriptures clearly teach, he was guilty of committing his very own sin reckoned it to all of mankind. This is where you are missing the point. When the Scriptures teach Adam as a “type” of “the one who was to come” (Romans 5:14) referring to Christ; it is not referring to Adam being a type of savior. Rather, as the first man his failure, his sin, was reckoned (imputed) to all mankind. Hardly a hero wouldn’t you agree. And he was a type of Christ how? In the same way that through him, the first man, sin was imputed to all mankind; through the one man Christ, atonement was made. Let me finally say that I find it interesting and somehow deceptive that if pabrain and stbrain are one and the same, pabrain would offer a post "in complete, and total agreement with what "stbrain" had to say". Very concerning, the entirety of both of your posts here. I have exceeded the amount of time and Forum space I had intended to use on this response so I will end here. Hopefully others will address your posts as well. God bless, Jeff |
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5 | Would Adam and Eve have fallen? | Gen 3:13 | lionheart | 186951 | ||
Jeff, Greetings brother. I dont know that I've seen this blatant of 2PT 2:20,21 and 2Tim 2:15 in quite some time. I went back and read the postings you refered to and I see alot of speculation,lack of scriptural support and missinterpetation. I agree with you. I dont know that we need to devote any further space to this In Him, lionheart |
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6 | Would Adam and Eve have fallen? | Gen 3:13 | jlhetrick | 186952 | ||
I agree. God bless, Jeff |
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