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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How do you address? | Gen 1:31 | Stultis the Fool | 127263 | ||
Hello Tom tgc... I appreciate your contribution to this topic to which I have taken such interest, and I appreciate the effort you put into interpereting the creation. However, I must ask how you address the verse in Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." | ||||||
2 | How do you address? | Gen 1:31 | tgc | 127294 | ||
After a careful reading of Isaiah 45 the entire chapter I think a case can be made that you are pulling this one verse out of it's intended context. All of the chapter deals with a charge to Cyrus. Within the context of the entire passage I belive that an agrument can be made the pharse I...created evil refers to physical evil or calamity rather than moral evil. It is also interesting to note that out of the five translations I have open in front of me only the KJV translates this verse to read "I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil : I the Lord do all these things." The NKJV translates the same verse as follows. "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calmity; I, the Lord do all these things." The NIV gives this rendering, " I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord do all these things." The NLT reads, "I am the one who creates the light and makes the darkness. I,am the one who sends good times and bad times. I, the Lord am the one who does these things." Finally the NASB puts it this way, "Ths One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and createing calamity; I am the Lord who does all these things." Considering that four out of five text translate the word calamity rather than evil I think this is a very weak passage to build a theological therory on. Futher I belive I have shown that the explanation offered is a viaible explanation, and that it is a real reach to say that this verse proves God created evil. As I attempted to show in my previous post God did create the potential for evil but man actualized it. This is to say that ultimately man is responsible for the evil in this world not God. With all that said let us look at another point. Does God sometimes create or use situations we would consider terrible or as a calamity yes He does. The Bible is full of examples of this. The passage you quote from is one of those examples others would be, the ten plagues on Egypt, the blind man that Jesus heals, or even sending Joseph to Egypt and putting him in the kings court to savce his family from the famine. These are just a few examples that pop to mind, but from none of these can we draw the conclusion that God created evil because each one of these situations can be traced back to orginal cause of all of man's problems that is the fall when sin entered this world through our choice to disobey God. So in short I would answer your question by saying always consider a verse by the context it is set in and always let scripture interpit scripture. I am sorry if I come off gruff that is not my intention at all. I am actually enjoying following this thread it is forcing me to look deep into scripture and be able to back up what I belive with scripture. In The Love Of Christ, tgc |
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3 | How do you address? | Gen 1:31 | Stultis the Fool | 127320 | ||
I have reread Isaiah 45, for context, and also I have consulted the Hebrew for more information. I cannot deny that this passage is immediately pertinent to Cyrus. However, in that context, I believe the prophet is portraying the Lord as "all-mighty." In particular, consult verse 2,5,6,7,8,9,12, and 18. These verses indicate the majesty of God, in all his capacities. As for verse 7, I have considered the Hebrew text, particularly regarding the word in question, "ra" (translated evil, disaster, calamity, etc.). I have discovered that the primary definition of this word, as a noun, is "evil," and this word is translated as "evil" hundreds of times throughout the scriptures. I further considered the word it counterpoints, "shalom," (translated peace, good times, prosperity, etc.). I find that this word is most immediately defined as safe (by grammar, in English, safety), though it is translated as "peace" nearly as often as "ra" is translated as "evil." I see several conclusions and an absolute that can be reached with this information. The first conclusion is simple: these words are translated properly and represent themselves literaly, and I will address this later. A second conclusion is that the word translated "evil" is best translated as calamity to represent a physical manifestation (as you point to), though I find this doubtful, because the word peace, (safety etc.) is relatively intangible, while calamaty is not. A third possibility is that the words represent opposites of a mild nature, such as "health" and "distress," though I doubt this because of the extremes presented at the beginning of the verse (light and darkness). The absolute I see is the use of extreme opposites to define God's supreme power, and is concluded with the phrase "I the Lord do all these things." I find, based on the use of extreme opposites, as well as the contextual declaration of the Lord's all-mighty nature, and the frequency of translation of the words in question, based on Hebrew definition, as "peace" and "evil," that the words are likely translated accurately, particularly considering the typical biblical contrast between the concepts of "light" and "darkness," and that of "good" and "evil." I would also like to point to verse 9 ""Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, 'What are you making?' Does your work say, 'He has no hands'?" This verse again portrays God as the Creator of all things, and is used by Paul [Romans 9:18-22] to contrast the concept here discussed: "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:" I would also like to point to another verse, still directed towards Cyrus, this one from Chapter 44 of Isaiah [verse 24], keeping the same context as chapter 45: "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" I will conclude by stating that the above disemination is based on what I have been lead to find using a concept you advocate, as do I, of allowing scripture to interperate scripture, and by God above, to whom I credit my learning. I can find no definative verse that instructs that the Lord did not create evil, but I can find a number of verses that either describe the evil created, or directly state God creates everything, or that, in fact, God creates that which is evil. |
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