Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | special revelation vs general revelation | Ps 19:1 | EdB | 89205 | ||
Graceful Stop you have never been baited away. We have repeatedly and objectively answered you. As I have said many times what you believe is so near the truth it is very hard to distinguish from the truth so many times the right answer is not always yes or no. Many times you have quoted scripture to prove a point and that scripture is correct and does make your point however WOF did not stop at that point but beyond it. So if someone was to answer you they would have to go beyond what you were saying. Taht is not baiting but rather making sure the ture meaning is revealed. Lawyers like to do this, "just answer my question." And we all have seen unless the judge or the opposition takes the topic past their one point the truth will never be known. What will appear to be truth supportted by evidence is not in fact true. So yes many times you have said something but you weren't baited away it was put in context to reveal the truth. If you can't see this then I guess you do feel the way you do. I'm so sorry for you. Believe me my intent is not to destroy your faith or harm you. I was where you are, I know what your thinking, but I have also have seen the other side I know the damage WOF has done in the lives of others. When after all the faith the baby still died. People have walked away cursing God refusing to beleive anything because they were sure if they had faith the baby had to live. Why did the baby die? I have no idea but I do know all the faith these parents and loved ones around them could muster could not keep the baby alive. |
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2 | special revelation vs general revelation | Ps 19:1 | gracefull | 89328 | ||
Thank you Ed, But my point to Tim was that often threads that start going in the direction of personal statments and lean away from scripture often become distractive, and unfruitful. They tend to go off an tangeants that distract from the original topic. I see this, in the context of communication, as being baited..distracted from the topic by statements that cause us to think we need to 'defend' ourselves or others. I believe after a year on the forum that this is the main reason threads become restricted. I have seen very lengthy threads on topics with many varying scriptural views that were not banned because we stayed away from this type of communications. Your statement pasted below is a perfect example of such a divisive attitude. Then when I asked you to clarify your opinion based on the context of posts on the topic you have not done so. "Just so you know who your agreeing with as your lead by the spirit. There are many (graceful) on this forum from the Word of Faith denomination. That "denomination" teaches faith in faith. In other words if we have enough faith God HAS to do it. Word of Faith is far different than Pentecostal, Full Gospel or even Charismatic. It's teachings have been found and proven to be cultic. In that you no longer depend on God but rather on your faith." Your disagreements with my stance on scripture should be dealt with in the context of scripture, not in accusations concerning my 'affiliations'. Lawyers like to do this, "just answer my question." And we all have seen unless the judge or the opposition takes the topic past their one point the truth will never be known. What will appear to be truth supportted by evidence is not in fact true. So yes many times you have said something but you weren't baited away it was put in context to reveal the truth. If you can't see this then I guess you do feel the way you do. I'm so sorry for you." No, I defined 'baiting' above. Agreeing on the interpretaion of one scripture does not finalize the truth. However, it does make way for a true Bible study. Often the preconceived idea of what I believe causes many of you to dodge around rather than answer the post, comment on the scripture then move forward...true communication. This is 'reasoning together'. I do expect enough respect as to acknowledge the truth presented, which does not in many cases at all finalize the conclusion. Thus the use of prosecuters, defense attornyes, cross examination and often a jury! But is is necessary for some hard questions to be presented, such as "Does theis scripture say ALL OR A SOME?" And although we may not like it, the truth must be stated or we will not find the whole truth. As for your last paragraph concerning this testimony, my heart is compassionate toward any lose. But our scriptural beliefs can't be influenced by experience, We have discussed this before. I will not judge God's Word false regardless of my experiences or anyone elses. Many have left the church angry with God for many different reason. And I see that as a clear indication that believers are not being taught from their infacy to develop a personal intimate relationship with the Spirit of God and the Word. Many have lost loved ones who believe as I believe and recognize two major facts... 1. God is God and His Word is true. PERIOD 2. We are called to a personal and intimate relationship with Him in order to KNOW Him, and have HIM teach us and reveal the things of the spirit world that otherwise we can't comprehend. 3. While doing this when we face things beyond our understanding we must remember that we are human and GROWING in knowledge and faith. When we face things in life we do not understand, we must turn to God for answers, not run from Him. When I have blamed God for something (a long time ago) I had to humble myself and acknowledge that He is God and He loves me. If something was missed, He did not miss it,I did. Then rather than condemn myself for what I do not know, I sought Him more diligently to KNOW HIM more. That is the key to growing up through surrender. Simply put, Many 'believe' things taught without seeking God through the Holy Spirit for the spiritual revelation of the truth. When our faith is in what man has taught us and not in what God has revealed to us by His Holy Spirit, our faith is misplaced. Now as for this couple...I do not know what was going on in that situation in the spirit world, or in their own walk with God. I do not know what they believed or what they did not believe. And in reality no one else does. God KNOWS the heart. Again, judge nothing, either the 'faithful' or the 'unfaithful'. I do know God's Word is the only TRUTH. God bless God bless |
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3 | special revelation vs general revelation | Ps 19:1 | EdB | 89344 | ||
Graceful You never address the real issue. You rightly said You will never let experience judge God's word. Okay where does God's word say if we have enough faith we will never die? Because in effect that is what your saying. If you have enough faith you can overcome anything even physical death since physical death is caused by disease. I would just like to see that in scripture. You talk about a personal relationship with God yet yours is a relationship built on teachings of man rather than of God. Men and women have built upon the teachings of Bosworth, Kenyon, and Hagin learning that they can manipulate people to build congregations and raise money. You say your is faith is built on scripture, yet I will guess you have read many of Hagin's books, watch Copeland and Meyer and many others on TV. Have you ever read anything from another point of view? If your interested in the truth why not read the books I and others have suggested to you? If your faith is so weak it can not withstand being subjected to these books then there is a real problem with it. You keep saying I don't talk scripture to you, you have never provided a false scripture however you do take a single scripture and use it to base your point. I think we will both agree this nation is committing great harlotry in it's desire for personal pleasure going as far as aborting babies when they are inconvenient. I could then take this passage "Go, take yourself a wife of harlotry And children of harlotry, For the land has committed great harlotry By departing from the Lord." And say every true believer should marry a whore. Is the scripture a lie? No! Does this not fit the situation? Yes! Well what is wrong why can't we assume that all men should go marry a whore. The fact that God was talking to Hosea in Hosea 1:2 and not setting church doctrine. A come back is God is not a respecter of persons so if he said it to Hosea He is saying it to me. That is not the case, God spoke directly to Hosea for him to do something it simply does not apply to us today. You say I know that, and I would never do that. However that is exactly what Word of Faith has done. They have ripped scripture out of context and shouting God is no respecter of personage and by faith all things are possible and tat-da they have a captive audience. One that is afraid to read something that might expose the truth having been told that there are those trying to steal your faith. You say keep come back to Paul's thorn in flesh and state your case that we can not tell if that was physical or not. Your right (however strong evidence does point to it being physical) but you ignore Paul's admonishment to Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach problems. Why didn't Paul just pray and/or tell Timothy he needed more faith? When the famine came to Jerusalem we see Paul going through out Christendom of the time taking offerings to help the saints in Jerusalem. Why didn't he just go to the churches in Jerusalem and tell them if they had enough faith God would provide? Why did Paul go to the saints wasn’t he aware of the scripture that so many use that God will take the money of the unrighteous and give it the righteous? He should have claimed that and the unrighteous of Jerusalem would have poured out their money. Ask any preacher that teaches this doctrine where the money is coming from that he is using to pay for his house, his cars, his extravagant living and if he is honest he will have to answer from the saints NOT from the unrighteous. Your right God rewards and honors our faith and without faith it is impossible to please God. However misdirected faith is as bad as no faith at all. When we try to use our faith to manipulate God into giving us what we want we are in effect saying we know what is right better than you God. Isn't that what spoiled children do and say. God isn't raising spoiled children he is raising princes and princess, royal people, a holy nation. You have never been unfairly treated nor have you been attacked. What has been attacked is your refusal to seek the truth, to read what I and others have asked you to read, to reexamine the teachers that have gave you the teachings you carry. Do not declare your abuse, declare you refusal to seek the truth! And yes I will continue to warn others of your cultic teachings. EdB |
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4 | special revelation vs general revelation | Ps 19:1 | gracefull | 89353 | ||
"You never address the real issue. You rightly said You will never let experience judge God's word. Okay where does God's word say if we have enough faith we will never die? Because in effect that is what your saying. If you have enough faith you can overcome anything even physical death since physical death is caused by disease. I would just like to see that in scripture." 1. The SUBJECT of the thread was revelation knowledge... 2.I am not at all clear as to when it turned to 'never dying'. I am guessing you speaking of physical death. Neither I nor WOF (the ones I listen too) say our physical body never dies, but rather that we can 'go to sleep'when our work is done, and one does not have to be sick to die. Here is another example of the false assumptions placed on what I believe. You keep saying I don't talk scripture to you, you have never provided a false scripture however you do take a single scripture and use it to base your point. I think we will both agree this nation is committing great harlotry in it's desire for personal pleasure going as far as aborting babies when they are inconvenient. I could then take this passage "Go, take yourself a wife of harlotry And children of harlotry, For the land has committed great harlotry By departing from the Lord." And say every true believer should marry a whore. Is the scripture a lie? No! Does this not fit the situation? Yes! Well what is wrong why can't we assume that all men should go marry a whore. The fact that God was talking to Hosea in Hosea 1:2 and not setting church doctrine. A come back is God is not a respecter of persons so if he said it to Hosea He is saying it to me. That is not the case, God spoke directly to Hosea for him to do something it simply does not apply to us today. I understand taking scripture out of context and making a doctrine out of it. That has been done with the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Gifts for centuries. I said when a single scripture is being discussed in it's context we should not say it does not say what it clearly says or refuse to discuss it because we are affread of where it may take us. I also did not say you never discuss scripture with me, I said when a threads should not turn personal. And the discussion should not be 'tossed out' by accusations of heresy. the Pharasees did that to Jesus often when they did not want to hear what He was saying. When that happens, we should move on. The only reason I am still talking to you is 1. the thread has bee restricted so it's just you and me, and because I would really like for us to get to the place where you stop trying to read my posts and determine where I am going and head me off at the pass. "Your right God rewards and honors our faith and without faith it is impossible to please God. However misdirected faith is as bad as no faith at all. When we try to use our faith to manipulate God into giving us what we want we are in effect saying we know what is right better than you God. Isn't that what spoiled children do and say. God isn't raising spoiled children he is raising princes and princess, royal people, a holy nation." It was in WOF that I first heard the 'concept' that the Word of God is the uncompromised will of God. And that faith was the avenue God initiated for receiving His promises....And if our desires line up with His will...so be it. The parting so to speak seems to take place when we say God can illuminate His personla will to each individual and when He does, we must stand at all cost. As children of a rich Father, we are inclined to ask amiss alot, but the good news is that you should not worry about that because when we ask amiss, He does not answer! He is the Father, we are all children, learning and maturing under His guidance by the Holy Spirit. "You have never been unfairly treated nor have you been attacked. What has been attacked is your refusal to seek the truth, to read what I and others have asked you to read, to reexamine the teachers that have gave you the teachings you carry." "Do not declare your abuse, declare you refusal to seek the truth! And yes I will continue to warn others of your cultic teachings." I believe my statement to Tim was not to use teachers' names who some here consider heretics. It will cause the thread to break down... This thread is now proof positive that I was correct. Ed, I am tired of repeating myself only to have you turn around and repeat it back incorrectly...I am done with this conversation. God bless |
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5 | special revelation vs general revelation | Ps 19:1 | EdB | 89365 | ||
Graceful You said, “As children of a rich Father, we are inclined to ask amiss alot, but the good news is that you should not worry about that because when we ask amiss, He does not answer! He is the Father, we are all children, learning and maturing under His guidance by the Holy Spirit.” I think that is what have been saying. We ask and some times God for reasons far above our understanding does not answer. Why? Because God has promised to make all things work to our good to those that love God and are called to his purpose. His purpose is the secret here. We can’t pretend to know God’s purpose but even in our sickness (not that God caused it) can have God’s purpose. Word of Faith shuts the door to this possibility. EdB |
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6 | special revelation vs general revelation | Ps 19:1 | gracefull | 89375 | ||
"reasons far above our understanding does not answer." Here is where we disagree...I do not believe the reasons are beyond our understanding. One who is not receiving an answer should see for the reason, the correction, the enlightenment. I do not believe God leaves His children in the dark, but that if they remain in the dark by choice. WOF teaches that this is a progressive learning process and that the more time we spend in prayer and His Word, truly committed, the more we will mature in understanding what God has for so we can ASK CORRECTLY...Or in some cases, receive the promise, thanking God for the gift. "We can’t pretend to know God’s purpose but even in our sickness (not that God caused it) can have God’s purpose." No we can'tpretend to know but God is not hiding His will from us, we just do not hear all the time. Romans 8 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? These verses are not saying that every circumstance of life are directed by God to form us. Many circumstance of life come against us from the adversary. The working for us is the promise that God has freely given us all things through Christ Jesus. Here again you fail to acknowledge that man can choose to rebel and blace himself in the hands of the adversary, man can believe the lies os Satan and not receive the promises of God...does that mean that not receiving the promises was orchastrated by God for their good? Here again the botom line of the issue rests with the question...did God provide healing through the atonement....or is it His instrument of chastening? I believe that By His Stripes I WAS healed...Not was healed if I fall in to the right category. God bless God bless |
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7 | special revelation vs general revelation | Ps 19:1 | EdB | 89384 | ||
Graceful Before you take off God has clearly stated there are things He has chosen not to reveal to us. Paul said we don't understand all that we see through the glass darkly. That is not up for argument. However I find in most cases the reason while not readily apparent when I'm going through them becomes crystal clear once I get through it. You take this verse by His stripes and refuse to look at it. First if it was true for physical healing James 5:14 would be in conflict with it. That can not be. Secondly Paul's admonishment to Tim to take wine for his stomach would be in conflict with it and that can not be. Third Paul's statement that he came and preached when he was sick and infirmed would be in conflict with it and that can not be. We have three places that stand in direct conflict with that verse if means what you say. We also have Chrsitians dying all over the world from disease that would be in conflict with that verse. Therefore doesn't that hint the verse as you interpret it is the problem? Then we move to Peter he quotes the same verse only here it can clearly be seen Peter is talking of spiritual healing. How if we apply Peter meaning to the verse that it is talking of spiritual healing and not physical let's see does it conflict with James? No! Does it conflict with what Paul to Timothy? No! Does it conflict with what Paul said about himself? No! Does it conflict with what we see in the Christian world not just in the USA? No! Yet you insist your interpretation is the correct one and mine is wrong. Think about it! I'm not saying if we are in Christ God doesn't heal us. I'm saying God allowed imperfection to inflict this world at the time of the fall. In this imperfection is disease. Jesus did not by his death remove that. God Himself said some would would get sick and die for taking communion wrong, yet they are still saved still in Christ and in this case I beleive God made them sick. EdB |
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