Results 1 - 7 of 7
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | jg8ball | 1577 | ||
You actually believe (as an analogy) that God wrote this big book and we are the characters in that book unable to express our own thoughts and wills but rather follow the script that God wrote? I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with that analogy. You mentioned the people in Noah's day. How does this hold up with your beliefs? Did God only "choose" Noah and his family as elect and realized that he didn't choose enough "good" people so he wiped out everyone else and started over or did He wipe out other Elect people? You also mentioned other people in the OT that God directly influenced. I do believe that God will "override" our will when necessary to see that his plan comes to pass. God predestined his plan of salvation for us. He wants us all to be saved and has made a provision for that through Jesus Christ. He wants us to love Him, not by His will, but by our own will. If you want to relate it to something, then a play would be a better example than a book. In this play, God created the opening characters and the setting for these characters to live. He also created a rough story line to follow but then gave these characters the abilty to "ad-lib" so that He could sit back and watch. Every once in a while, He'll throw in a plot twist or two or may guide a character a certain way to see that His ending is met. He's also there to help any character that asks for it. I admit it's not the best analogy, but It's not easy to incorporate God into something as simple as an author of a literary piece (other than the Bible). Finally, yes, I'd like to be a puppet (in the good sense), but I'd also like world peace, no hunger, no disease, etc... but that's just not the way I see that God works. I doubt that I'll ever be able to change your mind, and admit that you probably won't change my mind but I have been tring to see how you can interpret the way you do but just can't seem to agree with it. All I see is that you have taken a few verses out of the bible and interpreted the whole bible based on those verses, very similar to how the Jehovah Witnesses developed their understanding of the bible. When I interpret the bible, I try to use the whole bible and determine how it fits. If it seems contradictory, then I look at who the author was writing to, other things the writer had written, reference to OT that writer may have used and how that relates. When Paul is talking about the "Elect" and "God chose us" and "God foreknew us", he's talking to believers. These people can be called that because they have already chosen to follow Jesus. Paul was "building" these people up, encouraging them, reminding them what it means to be a follower of Christ. He was letting them know that God knew of his plan of salvation through Jesus from the beginning of time and that since they chose to accept Jesus into their hearts, they too are part of His plan. To imply that God's plan was to only select certain people to be saved and the others not to be saved is ridiculous. God may have hardened Pharoahs heart (or anyone elses) but did not prevent them from being repentent in the end. And finally, if you still believe that God chose only His "Elect" to be saved and that all the "Elect" will be saved because they cannot refuse the will of God, then how do you explain Jesus' words that it's harder for a rich man to go to heaven? |
||||||
2 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | RElderCascade | 2052 | ||
When Paul wrote Ephesians (Chapter 1) he was worshiping God in his introduction by stating what is true of God -- we are instructed to worship in Spirit and TRUTH in John 4. The text gives no evidence that his purpose was to encourage the mostly Gentile Believers in Ephesus with Jewish promises..” that all along God knew His plan of salvation which, don’t worry included you outside Israel as well.” What could possibly make us think they were worried about how long God knew His plan of salvation, and how it might relate to gentiles? This is making non-sense out of clear teachings about the Sovereign God of the universe. I hardly fault the desire to learn what was the author’s purpose for writing. But wouldn't it be reasonable to expect to see a different clue in the text of why he launches into such statements about predestination and foreknowledge? Notice how Paul doesn’t give any kind of evidence that he’s answering anybody or that he is in any way exhorting them -- just worshiping God with all the power of understanding he has about God’s inestimable worth! There is no tidy disclaimer that places these statements (Rom 8; Eph. 1; 1 Pet 1, etc.) into a category of mere up building alone. Sure it does that, every time we worship God in Spirit and Truth it greatly upbuilds us. It hardly would make any more sense that Paul would take such a tact to refer to salvation as being pre-planned with Jews either, since this would not have been common ground for most Jews. They didn’t understand the Prophets concerning salvation, and besides Paul is not quoting the Prophets here, what other common ground could he have with the Jews? He does that in other areas for other reasons, but he is not doing that here. As Paul’s introduction to Ephesians continues the text indicates (Eph 1:15-23) that he does want to encourage them with Spiritual wisdom “that the eyes of your understanding be enlightened that you may know what is the hope of His calling...” here is the text giving a clue as to what he wants them to get out of this. To understand who God is and how does knowing Him affect them. The essential points that he makes are God’s greatness ...segway into man’s huge need for just this very God! ...being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will |
||||||
3 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | inHzsvc | 2072 | ||
In Rom 8:29, Paul stated that "whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover, WHOM he did predestinate, THEM he also called: and whom he called, THEM he also justified: and whome he justified, THEM he also glorified. (31) What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Personal pronouns are important. You will notice, Paul didn't say "what" He foreknew. Paul said "whom" He forknew. This language is similar to what Christ will say at the Great White Throne judgment. "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never KNEW you." The foreknowledge in this verse is not a mere knowledge God has of future events. It is a loving relationship that He has for His elect. Through the fall, we are unable to come to God (I Cor. 2:14). However, by His grace, He has chosen to save some. Thank the Lord you and I are among that group. God bless. |
||||||
4 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | RElderCascade | 2080 | ||
Yes, praise Him for His mighty works! Amazing that we also partake of His work and are numbered among the Blesse!. When we really think about this lovely, grace-giving, perfect being It is no wonder that Paul would break into such pumped up praise of Him! Your analysis which points out the personal pronouns does a great job of valuing the text for what it really says. Even the opposite position recognizes a large part of the truth that we are unable to come to God because of the fall. Did you ever look at how the finest Arminians or Wesleyans talk about man needing to be wooed, or coaxed? They get this from the Bible's word -- call. They are part of the way there, now if they could only look at what the authors meant with their use of the word. |
||||||
5 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | inHzsvc | 2087 | ||
It is interesting to me that many Arminians believe in a call to the ministry, but, reject an effectual call to salvation. Is not calling one to the ministry and not calling another a form of election and reprobation(though not in the salvation sense)? God bless you and yours. |
||||||
6 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | RElderCascade | 2138 | ||
Yes, it appears to me that there is much surrounding the issues of normal Christianity that requires election in its various forms! I have always studied (and recommend to others to do so as well) the Eternal Decrees of God. Read Charles Hodges or John Calvin on this. I have many of the popular modern theologians as well, but they (like Ryrie, Chafer, etc.) leave the issue quite alone! | ||||||
7 | Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? | Job 38:1 | inHzsvc | 2140 | ||
I'll add two to your list, if you don't know of them. A.W. Pink and John Gill both have some good to say concerning the Decrees of God. If you don't own a copy of John Gill's "A Body of Doctrinal and Practical Divinity", you should. God bless. |
||||||