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NASB | Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, |
Subject: Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? |
Bible Note: You actually believe (as an analogy) that God wrote this big book and we are the characters in that book unable to express our own thoughts and wills but rather follow the script that God wrote? I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with that analogy. You mentioned the people in Noah's day. How does this hold up with your beliefs? Did God only "choose" Noah and his family as elect and realized that he didn't choose enough "good" people so he wiped out everyone else and started over or did He wipe out other Elect people? You also mentioned other people in the OT that God directly influenced. I do believe that God will "override" our will when necessary to see that his plan comes to pass. God predestined his plan of salvation for us. He wants us all to be saved and has made a provision for that through Jesus Christ. He wants us to love Him, not by His will, but by our own will. If you want to relate it to something, then a play would be a better example than a book. In this play, God created the opening characters and the setting for these characters to live. He also created a rough story line to follow but then gave these characters the abilty to "ad-lib" so that He could sit back and watch. Every once in a while, He'll throw in a plot twist or two or may guide a character a certain way to see that His ending is met. He's also there to help any character that asks for it. I admit it's not the best analogy, but It's not easy to incorporate God into something as simple as an author of a literary piece (other than the Bible). Finally, yes, I'd like to be a puppet (in the good sense), but I'd also like world peace, no hunger, no disease, etc... but that's just not the way I see that God works. I doubt that I'll ever be able to change your mind, and admit that you probably won't change my mind but I have been tring to see how you can interpret the way you do but just can't seem to agree with it. All I see is that you have taken a few verses out of the bible and interpreted the whole bible based on those verses, very similar to how the Jehovah Witnesses developed their understanding of the bible. When I interpret the bible, I try to use the whole bible and determine how it fits. If it seems contradictory, then I look at who the author was writing to, other things the writer had written, reference to OT that writer may have used and how that relates. When Paul is talking about the "Elect" and "God chose us" and "God foreknew us", he's talking to believers. These people can be called that because they have already chosen to follow Jesus. Paul was "building" these people up, encouraging them, reminding them what it means to be a follower of Christ. He was letting them know that God knew of his plan of salvation through Jesus from the beginning of time and that since they chose to accept Jesus into their hearts, they too are part of His plan. To imply that God's plan was to only select certain people to be saved and the others not to be saved is ridiculous. God may have hardened Pharoahs heart (or anyone elses) but did not prevent them from being repentent in the end. And finally, if you still believe that God chose only His "Elect" to be saved and that all the "Elect" will be saved because they cannot refuse the will of God, then how do you explain Jesus' words that it's harder for a rich man to go to heaven? |