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NASB | Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, |
Bible Question:
I'm having problems seeing the Calvinist viewpoint on Election. I've read the verses and studied documents and have found too many problems with the interpretations. I'll discuss these verses again if requested but a couple things that I don't see how they fit are: 1) If God pre-chose only some individuals that were to be saved, why did he destroy them in the flood? I guess you could always say the Noah and family were the only ones he chose but why then go to all the trouble of populating the world and wipe it out with a flood? 2) If God had his "Elect" already in mind and knew they were going to be saved because the could not resist God, why then did Jesus have to die? 3) Why would it be harder for a rich man to enter the Kindgom of Heaven? My view on this is that God wants us all to be saved and has provided (initiated, given us, predestined, etc...) the way to salvation through his son. 1) In the time of Noah, the people "went away" from God and the only way at that time to get them back on track was to "start over". 2) In Jesus' time, the people were getting too lost in all their laws and was losing the true meaning of God (Love) and sent Jesus, as a final statement, to show us the path. 3) Because God wants us to chose to worship him and believe in his son and to not follow the "ways of the world", then it would be harder for a rich man because there is greater temptations to sway him away. Although I do believe we have "Free Will" to choose, I also believe that our Will can be overriden by God, if necessary, for his plan to be fulfilled. I also believe that there could not have been anything we could have done to enter Heaven, but fortunately, he invited everyone free of charge with only one string attached -- you must believe. |
Bible Answer: I have cut and pasted in your three questions and now will try to answer them "directly", as best I can. 1) If God pre-chose only some individuals that were to be saved, why did he destroy them in the flood? I guess you could always say the Noah and family were the only ones he chose but why then go to all the trouble of populating the world and wipe it out with a flood? Answer: I'm not sure what you mean here. Who is the "them"? I suppose you refer to all of mankind dying in the flood. But this has nothing to do with election/free-will. To be blunt, everyone dies sooner or later. The only difference in this case (the Flood) was that all but 8 died all at once rather than just some each day. It is possible that some of them were elect and went on to paradise. Although this is doubtful in view of Gen 6:5-8 which seems to say that only Noah was found acceptable by God. But to imply a lack of election because of the timing and/manner of the physical deaths of many people is mixing apples and oranges. The same question could then apply to any case of mass slaughter of humans, some of whom may be elect and saved while others are not. Bluntly put, the question makes no sense. Sorry. 2) If God had his "Elect" already in mind and knew they were going to be saved because the could not resist God, why then did Jesus have to die? Answer: Jesus had to die and rise again to be the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for the sins of the elect. The fact that a sinner has been chosen by God unto salvation is an act of a loving and gracious God showing forth his mercy towards someone who not only doesn't deserve mercy he actually deserves eternal punishment. But God is just as well as loving. Hence the penalty for the sin had to be paid by Someone who had no sin of His own to atone for. Hence the perfect sinless humanity of Jesus was an absolute requirement. He also had to be divine, infinite in His capacity to atone for the sins of more than just one person. God couldn't simply choose someone to salvation out of His loving nature without also satisfying His just nature. And to respond to one statement in your answer to your own question, Jesus was not sent to show us the path. He WAS/IS the path! 3) Why would it be harder for a rich man to enter the Kindgom of Heaven? Answer: One whose heart is set upon his earthly riches to the point that he prefers them to God is evidence that he has never been truly converted and has no real love for God (cf 1 Jn 2:15 and similar Scriptures). Hence, as it is obviously absurdly impossible for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, it is even more absurd, or "harder", for the unconverted rich man to enter heaven. This question, by the way, would probably fit in better with a Lordship/cheap-grace debate rather than election/free-will. But in many respects the two questions are closely linked, anyway. But that is another topic for another time. Also, at the end of your comments you made a very telling remark that in effect contradicts your whole point. If God can over-ride the will (your words), then the will is not truly free, is it? And that is precisely the issue. Scripture, from beginning to end, shows that the will of fallen man always runs away from God rather than towards Him. (cf Rom 3:9-18; etc) The only way for God to save any person is to perform in such a way as to over-ride that evil will which is inherent to each and every one of us. Hope I have answered you directly enough. Ron (A poor sinner saved by the gracious choice of a loving and just God!) |