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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Death penalty Biblical? | Romans | BradK | 197245 | ||
Hello Julie, You said: "May I submit to you that when Paul says 'government' he means God's good, SAVING, Onniscient judgment, not the world's, not ours" How do you justify and support this response, or is this merely your opinion? Can you conclude this based upon study, context, and grammar? What do other- more recognized scholars- have to say? Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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2 | Death penalty Biblical? | Romans | JulieOwl1 | 197248 | ||
I hope you find this answer to be more conclusive. Is 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the GOVERNMENT will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. The government will rest on His shoulders, and not on the USA's shoulders. And He will be called Prince of Peace, probably because once we submit to God's government, then we will find God's eternal peace. 2 Is 9:7 There will be no end to the increase of HIS government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and FOREVERMORE. THE ZEAL OF THE LORD OF HOSTS WILL ACCOMPLISH THIS. I don't think they are talking about the goodness of the Sanhedrin. There will be no end to the increase of His government. Here, the H is clearly capitalized. I did not make the capitalization. I have many things to say, and do not feel like searching to back up everything, but that does not mean it is therefore only my opinion. I have not read any scholar's books. I am new to this. I am not sure if this is the verse you are talking about, but this is what I will respond to: I believe the above verses support what Paul is referencing. I will give you clear reasons for my belief, and I hope that no 'context' can interfere with this argument. Rom 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. The reason that whoever resists authority is opposing the ordinance of God, and will receive susequent condemnation, is because, we are not just talking about any authority figure in the world here. Would God say in the Bible that If I don't follow a law of my country and president, I will be condemned? If it is a law in my state to buckle up while driving my car, will I be 'condemned' if I don't? If a child in school talks to his friends during classtime, and therefore breaks the rules of the governing authority that she is under, is Paul saying at this moment, she will and should be 'condemned'? Condemnation is a serious word that I don't think can be applied to little matters. If I am to be condemned, I want it to be something serious that I have done- I want it to be (if at all) because I have sinned against the Holy Spirit. I think Paul is saying there is no authority except for God. So if you resist authority, you resist God. The president is not an authority over me, because the president is not God, and because there is no authority except for God's authority. God is OnniPotent. that means, there are no other gods or authorities that can have power over us, BECAUSE HE HAS ALL OF THE GOVERNING POWER AND AUTHORITY THAT EVER IS WAS AND IS TO BE. Excuse me for shouting, but I do not think Paul was going to spend his time and effort preaching to the Romans about how if they don't listen to Caeser, they will be 'Condemned'. I think they already had enough idea what the laws of that time were...I don't think any ruler or president needs Paul as a 'go between' for them. Nor would the term 'condemnation' be a fitting and proper word to desribe to you what a state does when someone doesn't pay taxes to Caeser. Unless that was the general word they used at that time to describe goverment penalties, I see no reason why we should assume the Goverment Paul is talking about is in the world. Here are some verses about God's OmniPresence and Omnipower, which means there are no other gods befors God or ruling authorities: Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." 2 Rev 21:6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 3 Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." What about this one: "You shall have no other gods before Me. I find that this argument has been very supported, but like I said, I am new to this, and haven't read much.That is my understanding, I am not going to the library to ask someone else. I am in the midst of reading the bible, so I cannot be completely prepared for any Bible argument, since I have not studied it all. Therefore, my conclusions are based only on what I have heard and worked with up to this point. But I like the way you close. Shalom |
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3 | Death penalty Biblical? | Romans | BradK | 197256 | ||
Hi Julie, I think the passage , Romans 13:4 is rather clear in it's meaning- "for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil." I believe the meaning can be derived from vs. 1-4, particularly vs 1: "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God." I do not believe Paul had in mind other that the authorities, i.e. governments of whatever respective countries we reside (U.S., Canada, France, Germany, etc.). To whom would the "governing authorities ' refer? What does the context support? I do not see the support from Isaiah 9:6- particularly due to lack of context among other things. For whatever reason, you appear to be twisting the plain, intended meaning of Romans 13:1-4ff. We derive the meaning of scripture from : the text, it's context, and the words used and their meanings, not our notions! Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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