Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Death penalty Biblical? | Romans | Searcher56 | 197231 | ||
I have attempted to link the Ten Commandments to the captial crimes listed in the OT. Note that murder was a captal crime before the Ten Commandments (Gen 9:6). I listed the Ten Commandments and the verse(s) in Exodus 20, where you'll find them. (1st) 3 "You shall have no other gods before me. (2nd) 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand (generations) of those who love me and keep my commandments. - Sorcery (Exo 22:18; Lev 20:27) - Sacrificing to other gods (Exo 22:20; Lev 27:29) - Human sacrifice (to Molech) (Lev 20:1-5) (3rd) 7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. - Blasphemy (Lev 24:10-16) - False prophecy (Deu 13:1-10, 17:2-7, 18:20-22) (4th) 8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. - Sabbath breaking (Exo 31:12-17, 35:2, Num 15:32-36) (5th) 12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you. - Disobedience to parents (Exo 21:15; 21:17, Lev 20:9; Deu 21:18-21) - Cursing father or mother (Lev 21:17) (6th) 13 "You shall not murder. - Murder (Gen 9:6; Exo 21:12-14; Lev 24:17-23; Num 35:9-34) - Negligent killing - ox-goring (Exodus 21:28-32) (7th) 14 "You shall not commit adultery. - Adultery (Lev 20:10) Other sex crimes - Prostitution by the daughter of a priest (Lev 21:9) - Incest (Lev 20:11-12) - Sodomy (Lev1 8:22, 20:13) - Marrying your wife's mother (Lev 20:14) - Bestiality (Exo 22:19; Lev 20:15-16) - Unchastity by one engaged to marry (Deu 22:13-29) (8th) 15 "You shall not steal. - Kidnapping (Exo 21:16, Deu 24:7) ... stealing person ... or could violate 10th (9th) 16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. - False witness to a capital crime (Deu 19:15-21) - Contempt of court (Deu 17:8-13) (10th) 17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor." - Rape (Deu 22:23-27) ... we need to judge based on the fact, else there will be no order Acts 25:10-11 ... there are crimes worthy of death and guily should complain Romans 13:4 ... the sword by the government is just Searcher |
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2 | Death penalty Biblical? | Romans | JulieOwl1 | 197239 | ||
It looks like you are quoting the old law which holds us in our sin and does not release us from it. That is what Jesus came to do- release us from the bondage of the old law. The old law believed in an eye for an eye. "Moses commanded us to stone such women", those who brought the adulteress to Jesus said. But what do you say? What is your Judgment? And Jesus said: He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 1 Tim 5:22 Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin. John 8:5 "Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?" What do YOU say? If judging based on fact leads us to kill someone else, then this is not sane judgment, but rather craziness and sinning on our side of things. Two wrongs do not make a right, ever. 29 Rom 2:22 You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? John 8:11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more." Romans 13:4 ... the sword by the government is just Which government? If it's the government that your country is fighting against which uses the sword against your soldiers, are they right? Are they right in killing you if they are just listening to the commander? Would you want to be on the wrong end of the gun? Would you in any way at that moment admit that their country, because of their law that they forswore, was right? Who is to know which country is right in killing the other? How are we to know if anyone deserves death? Is anyone ever right for killing? "Do Not Kill" Well, that about says it all. Romans 13:4 ... the sword by the government is just Do you think Paul was possibly saying that any goverment can kill whoever they want, and they are right, and moral to do this to others? Rather,Paul speaks in symbolism: 394 Eph 6:17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 395 Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. May I submit to you that when Paul says 'government' he means God's good, SAVING, Onniscient judgment, not the world's, not ours. The world is taught by the devil. Therefore, we cannot judge righteous judgment. For we are not capable of it. Only God can be a righteous judge, because only he knows the heart. Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; So given this, how can we then make of ourselves our brother's judge? all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; This is not the old law of Moses, rather it is the new law of love thy neighbor as thyself that Paul is referring to here. 18 Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God This is a story I have made up. The killer is sitting in the chair, ready to die, and he is afraid. A group of men have strapped his head, arms, and feet. They hope to stop him from killing again, and they hope to bring justice to him. But for some reason, someone says a prayer, and Christ arrives on the scene. The man asks Jesus a question, 'Now our government must uphold the law; and this man has been judged to be unworthy of life by our judges. Are courts are peopled by honorable men, who have many years of study, and know pride in seeing justice. We honor our Fathers. We take pride in our country and honor our land. We only obey out of love. what then do You say?" He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to electricute him". And they were beside themselves with guilt, and said "But we have not murdered or ever drawn blood". And Jesus said (actually,all of these are my words, not Jesus', but there is a verse where he says this about adultery) You have heard it said that whoever murders must be put to the electic chair. But I say whoever kills within his own heart and in his own thoughts is guilty of murder. That day they believed Jesus, and quit their jobs. Then they went home and stopped murdering in their hearts. Jesus turned to the man sitting in the electric chair and said (all of my words, not truly said by Jesus) I do not condemn you. You may remain incarcerated in this jail, but yet you will be free if you sin no more in your heart. Let the word of the Lord come to your heart and He will lead you out of your unrighteous ways. |
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3 | Death penalty Biblical? | Romans | BradK | 197245 | ||
Hello Julie, You said: "May I submit to you that when Paul says 'government' he means God's good, SAVING, Onniscient judgment, not the world's, not ours" How do you justify and support this response, or is this merely your opinion? Can you conclude this based upon study, context, and grammar? What do other- more recognized scholars- have to say? Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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4 | Death penalty Biblical? | Romans | JulieOwl1 | 197248 | ||
I hope you find this answer to be more conclusive. Is 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the GOVERNMENT will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. The government will rest on His shoulders, and not on the USA's shoulders. And He will be called Prince of Peace, probably because once we submit to God's government, then we will find God's eternal peace. 2 Is 9:7 There will be no end to the increase of HIS government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and FOREVERMORE. THE ZEAL OF THE LORD OF HOSTS WILL ACCOMPLISH THIS. I don't think they are talking about the goodness of the Sanhedrin. There will be no end to the increase of His government. Here, the H is clearly capitalized. I did not make the capitalization. I have many things to say, and do not feel like searching to back up everything, but that does not mean it is therefore only my opinion. I have not read any scholar's books. I am new to this. I am not sure if this is the verse you are talking about, but this is what I will respond to: I believe the above verses support what Paul is referencing. I will give you clear reasons for my belief, and I hope that no 'context' can interfere with this argument. Rom 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. The reason that whoever resists authority is opposing the ordinance of God, and will receive susequent condemnation, is because, we are not just talking about any authority figure in the world here. Would God say in the Bible that If I don't follow a law of my country and president, I will be condemned? If it is a law in my state to buckle up while driving my car, will I be 'condemned' if I don't? If a child in school talks to his friends during classtime, and therefore breaks the rules of the governing authority that she is under, is Paul saying at this moment, she will and should be 'condemned'? Condemnation is a serious word that I don't think can be applied to little matters. If I am to be condemned, I want it to be something serious that I have done- I want it to be (if at all) because I have sinned against the Holy Spirit. I think Paul is saying there is no authority except for God. So if you resist authority, you resist God. The president is not an authority over me, because the president is not God, and because there is no authority except for God's authority. God is OnniPotent. that means, there are no other gods or authorities that can have power over us, BECAUSE HE HAS ALL OF THE GOVERNING POWER AND AUTHORITY THAT EVER IS WAS AND IS TO BE. Excuse me for shouting, but I do not think Paul was going to spend his time and effort preaching to the Romans about how if they don't listen to Caeser, they will be 'Condemned'. I think they already had enough idea what the laws of that time were...I don't think any ruler or president needs Paul as a 'go between' for them. Nor would the term 'condemnation' be a fitting and proper word to desribe to you what a state does when someone doesn't pay taxes to Caeser. Unless that was the general word they used at that time to describe goverment penalties, I see no reason why we should assume the Goverment Paul is talking about is in the world. Here are some verses about God's OmniPresence and Omnipower, which means there are no other gods befors God or ruling authorities: Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." 2 Rev 21:6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 3 Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." What about this one: "You shall have no other gods before Me. I find that this argument has been very supported, but like I said, I am new to this, and haven't read much.That is my understanding, I am not going to the library to ask someone else. I am in the midst of reading the bible, so I cannot be completely prepared for any Bible argument, since I have not studied it all. Therefore, my conclusions are based only on what I have heard and worked with up to this point. But I like the way you close. Shalom |
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5 | Death penalty Biblical? | Romans | BradK | 197256 | ||
Hi Julie, I think the passage , Romans 13:4 is rather clear in it's meaning- "for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil." I believe the meaning can be derived from vs. 1-4, particularly vs 1: "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God." I do not believe Paul had in mind other that the authorities, i.e. governments of whatever respective countries we reside (U.S., Canada, France, Germany, etc.). To whom would the "governing authorities ' refer? What does the context support? I do not see the support from Isaiah 9:6- particularly due to lack of context among other things. For whatever reason, you appear to be twisting the plain, intended meaning of Romans 13:1-4ff. We derive the meaning of scripture from : the text, it's context, and the words used and their meanings, not our notions! Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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