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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Death penalty Biblical? | Romans | DocTrinsograce | 197190 | ||
Hi, Julie... Oh my! Assumptions nailed together by specious logic, stacked on the foundations of unsound presuppositions produces a pretty shaky structure! So that's the kind of intellectual shacks that get built when we start with a belief and work backwards to bolster it. You've got so much of this going on, it would be too formidable of a task to correct in 50,000 character posts. I will, therefore, summarize. If you are interested in learning, you will ferret out your own misunderstandings in the search for truth. If you are only interested in bolstering your death penalty view, then you'll just continue to argue and contradict. Truth #1: God is creator, and therefore He owns all things (Psalm 100:3). Truth #2: God is omnipotent (Job 42:2) and omniscient (1 John 3:20), He is the rightful sovereign over all things (Psalm 135:6). Truth #3: God is holy (Leviticus 11:45), righteous (Daniel 9:7-11), and perfect (Psalm 18:30). All of His actions flow out of and are consistent with His nature (Numbers 23:19). Nothing can thwart His will (Isaiah 46:11; Daniel 4:35). Truth #4: God is triune in nature: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The three persons of the Godhead are in a complete, perfect, happy, loving, and harmonious relationship (John 17:5). When one speaks, the other speak (John 8:28). Truth #5: God has a plan, an eternal purpose (Ephesians 3:11); i.e., He has an end state towards which He is working. The Bible relates the story of this activity in what is called redemptive history. Truth #6: God invented, introduced, and implemented everything about death during creation (Genesis 2:17). Truth #7: God gave man a number of mandates. One in particular that has to do with our discussion is the social mandate (Genesis 1:27-28). Therefore, we read, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For THERE IS NO AUTHORITY EXCEPT FROM GOD, and those that exist have been INSTITUED BY GOD. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for HE DOES NOT BEAR THE SWORD IN VAIN. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer." (Romans 13:1-4 ESV, my emphasis added) Insofar as they are in the commission of the social mandate, it is right and permissible for the administration of violence in ways appropriate to each situation. Even the individual, in order to prevent the commission of greater sin, may rightfully and morally administer violence sufficient to that end. Consequently, the state may exact punishment for a crime. They lack the power to exact the full punishment, only God can do that -- and will do that. In Him, Doc |
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2 | Death penalty Biblical? | Romans | JulieOwl1 | 197254 | ||
Gen 2:15 Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. Gen 2:16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; Gen 2:17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." Yes. But read verse 2:15. Why did he give us this land and this life? to cultivate it and keep it. It was never his intention for us to die. We are the ones who made that decison. His intention was for us to live long in the land of plenty. But we are the ones who decided not to listen to him, therefore WE instituted our own death. He did not invent or introduce us to death or incur it upon us. He merely warned us, that is all. Why? Because he didn't want to see us get hurt, and cast ourselves out of heaven. Yes. We were MADE and BORN in his image, but once we made the first sin, we were no longer His image. We were no longer pure, but felt shame to cover ourselves. We were no longer holy. At the time he made us, and for some time, we lived as lords of our own eden. We were fruitful, and our land was easily tended and yielded fruits and seeds, it seems to say here, by their own accord. It seems we were in bliss. Everything was under our control, even could tell the birds what to do. I think, from this passage alone, that when we had our downfall, we were no longer in the image of God and so no longer had power over the birds actions, and no longer did the wheat grow freely, and the fruit just come right out and greet us. I am not reading any further, but I am knowing what is going to happen next. We will find ouselves in the life wer'e living right now, because we no longer have the likeness of God- which is his Power and such. I see this not as having to so with society, but with our souls, personally. I believ everything that is stated in the romans quote, but I do believe he is speaking of the power and authority of Christ, the ultimate sword bearer in our lives. For he is God's servant for your good... Don't you think Paul would be spending his enthusiasm (A.K.A Holy Spirit) speaking of God and not of how we are righteous to kill others if we feel like it? Paul's mission was to teach, not to bring us down. I don't agree that it is a social mandate, rather it is a statement of the power and glory we held in heaven together with God befeore our fall, where God would have us be, and where we took ourselves out of. We no longer have that kind of power in ourselves, unless we become Christ's follower, and He sends us the Holy Spirit. Then we can again gain our glory, which we once had with God, at peace, and serenity, in eden. Once again, Christ is the only proper, right judge. Because we have lost our connection to the truth, to God, so we must call upon him to tell us what is true. FOR WE CANT KNOW IT IN OUR FALLEN STATE. Isn't the Holy Spirit called- the Counsellor? Why would we need the Counsellor if we still shared HIS power and glory? Consequently, the state may exact punishment for a crime. So now we have gone from heaven to the fall to we can kill others if we want to. Punishment is too easy a word for taking away someone's life, don't you think? Hmmmm... I think Murder would be a better term for killing someone. Just a thought. But thank you for the suggestions. |
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