Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does this mean God is the author of sin? | 2 Sam 12:11 | RWC | 15352 | ||
Does this mean, then, that God is in fact the author of sin? This verse was cited to me in another discussion (Gal 2:17) about this same subject (see the message "Bob: What did you think of my view th... Reformer Joe Fri 08/24/01, 8:57pm"). I have done some preliminary reading from my rather limited library, and have come to no satisfactory answers. What this verse (and verse 12) say litterally, or so it would seem to me, is that God Himself would directly cause sin to take place. Granted, it was in judgement of previous sin. But if two wrongs don't make a right for humans, it certainly wouldn't for a holy God either! How can God do this and still be called holy? |
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2 | Does this mean God is the author of sin? | 2 Sam 12:11 | Brian.g | 15650 | ||
Sin is an act of defiance and an insult against God. Satan may tempt us and subject us to evil, but it is man's free will to choose whether to act upon a temptation or evil, thus creating the sin. In 2 Samuel 12:11, God is not creating sin nor is He creating evil. God is permitting evil to exist in David' house. When God said He will give Davids wives to his companions, God is not causing the wives to sin, because the action is neither performed by the free will of the wives nor is it an act of defiance against God. Instead the act is performed by the will of God as an act of punishment against David. God created evil and sin only to the extent that God created Satan and God permits Satan to tempt us and subject us to evil. Which, when chosen by mans free will, creates sin. Job 1: 6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." 8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. The question here is why does God permit evil and why does God permit Satan to tempt us. Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. God had a reason for leading Jesus into the desert and for permitting the temptation of Jesus, by Satan. What was God's reason. Does God use Satans temptations and evil and our free will actions towards those temptations, as a measurement of our devotion and commitment to God. Was this Gods final test of Jesus, the man, to guarantee Jesus' place in heaven and as the third member of the Trinity. In a post on this question, Charis asks why anyone would want to know God is the root cause of evil - what purpose is served. First, I don't feel the term 'God is the root of evil' is an accurate term. But, I feel that this reaffirms that God is greater than evil, which by itself is a very comforting thought. And, God has a reason for allowing temptation to exist, although we don't fully understand why. But, this does reaffirm that God can and will control evil, so as not to allow more than each of us can handle. Mark 15: 34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? In this test, Jesus never denied God, He only asked why God has not taken Him, yet. Jesus was obviously at the physical limits which any man could take. At which point, God intervened. 37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last James 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love |
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3 | Does this mean God is the author of sin? | 2 Sam 12:11 | Reformer Joe | 15667 | ||
Yes, that's Job; but there is an inclination within each individual to rebel against God. All humans possess it. Those who are not trusting 100 percent in what Jesus accomplished on the cross are 100 percent driven by this sin nature (Roamsn 8:7-8). Satan is busy at work and tempts, but he is not omnipresent. Satan can only tempt in one place at one time, but the idea that we are morally neutral is not a biblical one. --Joe! |
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4 | Does this mean God is the author of sin? | 2 Sam 12:11 | Brian.g | 15865 | ||
Joe First, when I speak, I am speaking as a Catholic. My position is one of not just repeating the Catholic philospophy, but of evaluating the topic and personally agreeing with the Catholic Churches principles. When I speak of Satan's influence, I abbreviated my terminology to represent the total causes of sin (i.e.: ignorance, infirmity, malice, suggestions, persuasion, temptation and bad example). I agree that man is not morally neutral. But, I believe that man, as a creation of God is good and not naturally 100 percent driven by sin. If man is given proper guidance from birth, then, he should REMAIN good and by the time he reaches the age of reason, that man will be more inclined to understand salvation, accept Jesus and live his life accordingly. Here I use the word inclined, because I feel the final action will be that of a free will decision on the part of the man. But, if a man is not given proper guidance (i.e.: bad examples from parents, etc), it will influence his actions in the opposite direction as he grows. Those actions will be sinful. The key is that man is not starting from a morally nuetral position, but one of goodness - and affected by other influences - internal and external. Romans 8: falls into the category that man cannot serve two masters. I believe that if man is taught to follow the correct master from a young age, then he will be more inclined to follow God, but there is no guarantee. Romans 8:5, the prelude to 7-8 which you referenced, doesn't imply man is sinful from birth, it refers to those who have chosen the path of the flesh - again, free will. |
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5 | Does this mean God is the author of sin? | 2 Sam 12:11 | Reformer Joe | 15881 | ||
Man was created good, but thanks to our good ancestor Adam, we all are by nature creatures of wrath (Ephesians 2:3; Romans 5). There is nothing in us that merits salvation whatsoever (Titus 3:5). If you are relying on your good works instead of Christ's righteousness, you are doomed. Incidentally, Romans 8:9-11 rules out your interpretation of the previous two verses: "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." Those in the flesh are not those who have chosen the path of the flesh; they are those who do not belong to Christ, for everyone who is a Christian has been sealed with the Spirit of God (Ephesians 1:13-14). Those "in the flesh" and those who "belong to Christ" are two mutually exclusive categories, and it is the indwelling Spirit of God which enables man to please God. Nothing those in the flesh (i.e. non-Christians) do pleases God. All of us fall into that category. Go read Romans 3-5 and Ephesians 1-2. See what we were by nature (by NATURE, not nurture). See what has been done for those who now belong to Christ, and Who did the saving. If we could save ourselves, then Christ dies for nothing. We are completely helpless in our sin, according to Romans 5:6. It is by grace we are saved, not by our works, according to Ephesians 2:8-9. If Scripture is our sole authority, there is simply no other conclusion to draw than that we are bound for hell if we do not rely completely on Christ's substitutionary death on the Cross and not on ourselves at all. St. Augustine saw this clearly; why can't you? --Joe! |
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6 | Does this mean God is the author of sin? | 2 Sam 12:11 | Brian.g | 15918 | ||
Joe I'm not sure as to why you are focusing on good works getting people into heaven, that was not my point. You have no argument from me that good works alone is not the key to salvation. Believing and accepting Christ and then living your life accordingly is what I think we are both saying. My only point is that it is easier to see, understand and accept Christ, when people are given proper guidance to do so, from an early age. And, in addition, I believe that, by nature, people want to and are willing to follow Christ, but are side-tracked by other influences in our life. But, the bottomline is, if you don't accept Christ by the time you're ready to move on, then don't hold your breath waiting for good things to happen in the next life. Brian |
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7 | Does this mean God is the author of sin? | 2 Sam 12:11 | Reformer Joe | 16624 | ||
I was not focusing on good works getting into heaven at all, since we are saved not by our rightousness or our works or the things we have done, but SOLELY by the mercy of God through the righteousness and perfect works of Jesus Christ (Titus 3:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:6-8; Romans 4:2-5; Romans 3:28). My point of disagreement with you is precisely on the nature of humanity apart from Christ. The Bible says that that humans by nature are "children of wrath" (Ephesians 2:3). We do not want to serve God. We have all gone astray. There is no one good; not even one. There is no one who seeks God. St. Paul made that abundantly clear in Romans 3:10-18. We are NOT good. We do not desire to please God. We are God's enemies until regenerated by the Holy Spirit: "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." (Romans 5:10) We in our own nature do not please God at all (Romans 8:7-9). Our natures are morally corrupt, not basically good. The whole of Scripture demonstrates that tendency in humanity. I do agree that it is important to present the truth to a child. The Holy Spirit works through the proclamation of His truth, and God uses the Word of God to draw His own chosen ones to Himself. However, the difference between us and the terrorists is not a matter of non-evil versus evil. The terrorists were undoubtedly misguided, but what that misguidance fed is the evil that already exists in all of us. It didn't corrupt a "good person." --Joe! |
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