Results 1 - 5 of 5
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Mar 5:15 | Bible general Archive 4 | heman | 233961 | ||
(Quote) BRAD Do you see the problem with your post? You jump and intermingle topics to the point no one or at least myself cannot follow you. Who was out of his mind? The first part of your post, I don't know who you are talking about.(unquote). ANSWER: I do not see any problem except that you did not quote the whole of what I said. You gave me three verses and asked it that was not a devil. My reply was that man was a lunitick or was ans epliptic, or as RWP put it catalepsy and Christ resored him to a Spiritual mind. Do you not have a lexicon? Why is so hard to ubderstand? Mar 5:15 And they came to Jesus and saw the demon-possessed man, sitting there, clothed and in his right mind, and they were afraid. You also referenced Acts to which I replied that the woman was soothsayer: Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: I then stated with a reference which implies that soothsayers are In the lxx those with familiar spirits and I gave you three Bibical passages; Lev_19:31; Lev_20:6, Lev_20:27! I backed that up with a quote from RWP: It is possible that this slave girl had this gift of prophecy “by soothsaying” (RWP) I then said, "we must please God by faithfully translating the WORD OF GOD. I am ashamed if that does not please you." But Plutarch (a.d. 50-100) says that the term puthones was applied to ventriloquists (eggastrimuthoi). In the lxx those with familiar spirits are called by this word ventriloquists (Lev_19:31; Lev_20:6, Lev_20:27, including the witch of Endor 1Sa_28:7). It is possible that this slave girl had this gift of prophecy “by soothsaying” (RWP) I also gave you an example that it is God who drives out the idols (not technically demons).Deu 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God DOTH DRIVE THEM OUT from before thee. KJV I gave you this example to show you what one's being in his RIGHT MIND means: 2Co 5:13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our RIGHT MIND, it is for you. (Quote) BRAD I show you translations that have proven themselves and they all translated different than the four you listed. Could it be possible that your four is wrong? Could it be that the English language has changed that the correct word in our time is discourse and not parable?(unquote) Could it be possible that your translations are wrong and the four I gave you are correct,or do you not recognize thae ASV, DARBY, Wycliff, since the Hebrew has not changed? Hebrew-English (mashal) nm. proverb, parable, fable, adage, similitude, allegory; byword, like, parable, proverb. Job 27:1 American Standard Version (ASV) 27 And Job again took up his parable, and said, Job 27:1 Darby Translation (DARBY) 27 And Job continued his parable and said, Job 27:1 Wycliffe Bible (WYC) 27 Also Job added, taking his parable, and said, (And Job added to his parable, and said,) (Quote) BRAD Also, why is it when we ask questions about your statements, you never reply with a clear answer. Maybe I'm making the assumption that English is your primary language,(Unquote) How much clearer can that be? And do not assume anything. plus you left out the rest of my comments which plainly show that it was God who brought the test of Job through His own Angel, which you failed to acknowledge: Job 12:9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? That is why I expressly is what I gave the opinion of Much of the popular history of the Devil is not biblical; instead, it is a post-medieval Christian reading of the scriptures influenced by medieval and pre-medieval Christian popular mythology. So say Newton, Lardner, Mead, Farmer, Ashdowne, Simpson, Burke, Carus, Wray, Mobley, Muggleton, Bekker, and Epps. I see nothing in the FORUM STATEMENT that says we may not show the correct view of EXACTLY what a satan, demon, devil, means in the HEBREW. 1. Originally, only the epithet of "the satan" ("the adversary") was used to denote the character in the Hebrew deity's court that later became known as "the Devil." (The term "satan" was also used to designate human enemies of the Hebrews that Yahweh raised against them.)3. has been erroneously interpreted by some to mean Satan, "the Devil", but such is not the case. The Hebrew Bible views ha-satan as an angel ministering to the desires of God, acting as Chief Prosecutor. Carus P. History of the Devil and the Idea of Evil Ashdowne, AN INQUIRY INTO THE Scripture Meaning of the Word SATAN, AND ITS SYNONIMOUS TERMS, The DEVIL, or the ADVERSARY, and the WICKED-ONE page 40, 1794 Burke, J. Christianity in the Witch Hunt Era, 2008 |
||||||
2 | Mar 5:15 | Bible general Archive 4 | srbaegon | 234004 | ||
Hello Heman, It appears you are saying that when we read scripture, we need to take more account of the cultural context in which it was written. Is that correct? Also, you mentioned Plutarch's use of a word. We need to be as careful about Plutarch's use as scriptural use. The two may not be directly equivalent. Context is king. You keep writing that "right mind" should be translated "spiritual mind." Actually, the proper translation is "right mind" or "sound mind." The main intent is to show the person is self-controlled and rational. However, I agree that someone who is spiritual has within himself the most sound mind, that being set on Christ. Steve |
||||||
3 | Mar 5:15 | Bible general Archive 4 | heman | 234012 | ||
Perhaps you could be more specific? EXACTLY which quote from the following are you comparing as "Context is king" ? FREQUENTING TOMBS Mar 5:3? Cicero, Virgil, Plato, Wilkinson, Pliny, Holland, Reginald Scot, Smith? This opinion is well expressed by one of PLUTARCH'S disputants, and it was esteemed to be true by Plato and his followers. Many of the fathers of the Christian church likewise ascribed the divination of the heathens to the assistance of their DAEMONS; but we have no reason to think that any opinion of this sort had obtained in the first ages of idolatry, or had appeared so early as the time of Moses. We meet with no names of any heathen diviners, mentioned in the Sacred Writings in these early days, which imply any converse with such spirits. Our English expression, consulter with familiar spirits, seems to signify one that divined by the help of such spirit; but the Hebrew words, ob shoel, aobv, are two persons, shoel is the consulter, aobv is the diviner. Our English translators have generally MISSED the true sense of this expression. but the true translation of the Hebrew words is as follows: A man or a woman, if there shall have been with them (i. e. if they shall have consulted,) an aobv or an yiddeoni (i. e. a python, or a wizard,) shall be put to death : here the aobv is the diviner, and DOES NOT signify a familiar spirit in a person, possessing him, as our English translation seems to INTIMATE. The term is rendered by the LXX “ventriloquist," but is rather a wizard who asked counsel of his familiar, and gave the responses received from him to others the name being applied in reference to the spirit or DAEMON that animated the person, and inflated the belly so that it protuberated like the side of a bottle. Or it was applied to the magician, because he was supposed to be inflated by the spirit like the ancients [ Ar, Vesp.1017, MALUM SPIRITUNT per verend i natures excipiebat; Schol. in Ar. Plut.). The ob of the Hebrews was thus precisely the same as the pytho of the Greeks (PLUTARCH, De def. Or. 414; Cicero, De div. i, 19), and was used not only to designate the performer, but the spirit itself, which possessed him (see Levit. xx, 27; 1 Sam. xxviii, 8; also Acts xvi, 16). That the word aobv is to be taken in this sense is abundantly evident from another passage in this book of Leviticus; the words are, al tiphnu el ha aobvoth, veel ha yiddeonim : a I tebakkeshu letameah bahem, i. e. Ye shall not have regard to the pythons, or to the wizards. Ye shall not wake inquiries to the polluting of yourselves by them. Here it is very plain, that aobv DOES NOT signify a spirit in a person, but is one sort of diviner, of whom the Israelites were not to inquire; as yiddeoni, the word translated wizard, is another; and whoever compares our English version of this verse with the Hebrew words, must see that our TRANSLATORS WANDERED from the strict sense of the original text, to express their notion of familiar spirits. and that the diviners of this sort were anciently thought to answer those who consulted them, without the assistance of any DAEMON, or familiar spirit, is evident from PLUTARCH. A more specific denomination of this last term was the necromancer (literally seeker of the dead, Deut. xviii, 10; comp. 1) one who, by FREQUENTING TOMBS, by inspecting corpses, or, more frequently, by help of the ob, like the witch of Endor, PRETENDED to evoke the dead, and bring secrets from the invisible world (Gen. xli, 8 Exod. vii, 11; Lev. xix, 26 ; Deut. xviii, 10-12). By a perversion and exaggeration of the sublime faith which sees God everywhere, men have laid everything, with greater or less ingenuity, under contribution, as means of eliciting a divine answer to every question of their' insatiable curiosity: e. g. the portents of the sky and sea (Plutarch, De Superstitions, passim); the mysteries of the grave; A belief in the significance of chance words was very prevalent among the Egyptians (Clem. Alex. Strom. i, 304 ; PLUTARCH, De Is. 14), and the accidental sigh of the engineer was sufficient to prevent even Amasis from removing the monolithic shrine to Sais (Wilkinson, Anc. Egypt. iv, 144). The universality of the belief among the ancients is known to every scholar (Cicero, De div. i; Herod. ii, 90; Virgil, En. vii, 116, etc.). (1 Sam. xviii, 9) as a verb, "Saul eyed David." "eyebiters" (Discovery of Witchcraft, iii, 15). "A manual Greek lexicon of the New Testament" G. ABBOTT SMITH |
||||||
4 | Mar 5:15 | Bible general Archive 4 | you | 234033 | ||
unanswered - intended for srbaegon | ||||||
5 | Mar 5:15 | Bible general Archive 4 | srbaegon | 234162 | ||
I apologize for not replying sooner. I did not see the e-mail that you had replied. When I say that context is king, I am saying that the author's original use of the text should govern meaning. In this case, because Plutarch or any other extra-biblical writer uses a word in a particular way, we cannot assume the Biblical author uses it in exactly the same way. There are shades of meaning based on the context of the paragraph. A short perusal of any good lexicon will bear this out. Extra-biblical usage helps understanding biblical use but does not define it. Steve |
||||||