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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225709 | ||
Ariel, I may be wrong but I think you are mistaken. This entire thread I've argued only one thing: There is a future judgement. I've never suggested that every other individual point he has made is wrong. I simply have tried to show there is a future judgement. Now, I can't recall a single point in any of this thread where he has agreed upon that point as you suggest. If he has, I will be happty to be pointed to the post where he has done so. There is always the possibility I have simply missed it. Lets claim our own words when we engage in such discussions. Here is the quote he made in post 225643 "The wicked that didn't accept Jesus aren't judged." If it is as you say, then let us put the question to him. EdB, has this statement indeed been recanted and I just missed you saying so? In Christ, Beja |
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2 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | EdB | 225711 | ||
Beja Is right I did say they weren't judged and with not further context that is incorrect and I retract and apologize for phrasing my statement that way. What I meant to say is what John 3:18 so very clearly says. John 3:18 (NASB) 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. What I really trying to say is our salvation is not based on the fact we only told little white lies, or robbed banks, or were mass murderers. Scripture clearly tells us we have all sinned and the penalty of sin is death. Someone could conceivably live a life that made Hitler’s atrocities look like school boy pranks in comparison, or a person that lived a life that would put Mother Teresa to shame but their fate would still be the same if they didn't accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The fate of unrighteous does not balance on the number of sins, the awful the sins are judged to be, to our state of mind committing the sins. The only thing that is "judged" (there I threw that in for you Beja) if you will is the whether their name is in the Book or Life or not. Revelation 20:15 (NASB) 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. |
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3 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225719 | ||
EdB, Now we are getting somewhere. There is in fact a judgement. And yes it is good that we use that word, not because I have insisted upon it, but because it is in fact the word that scripture uses. We are not being careless or unclear or nit picking by using scriptures on words. Saying what scripture says AS scripture says it is both a good thing and a safe guard. Now, if that is admited lets push on further, if you still care to. What is judged? Is it simply that they rejected Jesus Christ as you say? Or is it the sins that are going to be judged, which is what I would assert. Let me offer a scripture reference. Colossians 1:5,6 "Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath God is coming." Clearly states that it is on the account these sins the wrath of God is soon to come upon the world. Not simply rejecting Christ. Further, look at Revelations 20:12,13 again twice in those verses it says they were judged specifically according to their deeds/what they had done. Not simply by their rejection of Christ. 1 Peter 4 contains another excellent passage on it. 1 Peter 4:3-5 "For the time that is past suffices for doing what the Gentiles want to do, living in sensualtiy, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry. With respect to this they are surprised when you do not join them in the same flood of debauchery, and they malign you; but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead" Look at what they are about to give account of when God judges them, namely all the listed sins and their maligning Christians for not doing likewise. We have ample scriptural testimony to the coming judgement of sins that we have commited. Let us look at one more before I address john 3. Romans 2:1-3,5 "Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgement on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgement of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man--you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself--that you will escape the judgement of God? ...But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on teh day of wrath when God's righteous judgement will be revealed." How many things shall I point out in this passage? They will not escape his judgement who "practise such things." "We know that the judgement of God rightly fallson those who PRACTISE SUCH THINGS." (emphasis mine.) Now, let me address John 3:18. John 3:18 "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." (ESV) Now, you are rightly pointing out two things from this passage. I chose the english standard version because it is drawing out here that the word "judged" is being used somewhat differently. Here when it says that somebody who believes is not judged. What it means is that they will not be condemned. Now there is another sense in which we can use the word judged. For example if I judge was to stand up and declare me innocent of all charges, I was in a sense judged though I was judged to be innoccent. In another sense the word "judged" is sometimes used to refer specifically mean the condemning side of it. That is how it is used here. This passage is not meaning to say that those who believe will not be publicly judged to be righteous before God, because they will. It means they will not be condemned in the judgement because they have believed upon Christ. So they will be judged if by that we mean a public declaration of their innoccence, but they will not be judged in the sense of being condemned. The second part: you rightly point out that with regards to those who do not believe their judgement is spoken of here in a past tense. This is something I conceded much earlier in our discussion. There is without a doubt a sense in which judgement has already been given. By not believing they have already clenched their judgement as certain. Yet though that be the case, this passage is not denying that there will be a day in which that verdict is publicly declared, publicly vindicated with evidence from their sinful actions, and the penalty publically carried out. I hope this serves to benefit the discussion. In Christ, Beja |
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