Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | Reformer Joe | 82545 | ||
Mormons and Muslims are not winning converts because of any lack of division in their ranks. Islam has many sects, such as Sunni, Shi'a, and Ismali. Both the LDS and the Community of Christ (formerly known as the Reorganized LDS) claim to be the true followers of the "prophet" Joseph Smith. Divisions much more radical than those between Baptists and Presbyterians have not prevented the success of proselytizing in the U.S. Why are the cults and false religions winning more converts? Number one: unregenerate sinners prefer lies about God. Number two: the evangelistic efforts of many of these groups are professional, polished, and persistent. I contend that evangelical Christianity is not keeping pace with the growth of Islam and the LDS simply because "evangelicals" are NOT evangelizing the way we have been called to do by our Lord. --Joe! |
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2 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | EdB | 82548 | ||
Joe I thought you worked with cults? You never heard “Christians can't make up their minds what to believe?” Almost every cult member I have talked to said that to me in one form or another. I hate to tell you but professionalism and polished doesn't win prisoners to Islam, it is the united front, Islam presents to them. By the way our prison system is being overrun by Islam. Professionalism and polish isn't winning Mormons it is family values and a church united. Yes there is a Reformed Mormon church and I suspect less than 1 in a 1000 know that. But I imagine every one of the thousand know the Baptist think Presbyterians are wrong and vice versa. Of all the religions, all the denominations, all the churches that have tried to evangelize me, I have never been evangelized by a Presbyterian. Maybe they thought I wasn't elected. ;-) EdB |
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3 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | Reformer Joe | 82558 | ||
'I thought you worked with cults? You never heard “Christians can't make up their minds what to believe?” Almost every cult member I have talked to said that to me in one form or another.' Of course they do, and it is a red herring, because their own separatist existence is a declaration that, yes, "everyone else is wrong." Anyone who makes any claim to any belief is implicitly declaring that anything in opposition to that belief is in error. Muslims do it, Mormons do it, birds do it, bees do it... 'I hate to tell you but professionalism and polished doesn't win prisoners to Islam, it is the united front, Islam presents to them. By the way our prison system is being overrun by Islam. ' What does that have to do with the differences between Christian denominations? Convicts converting to Islam has very little to do with deep theological introspection. "Professionalism and polish isn't winning Mormons it is family values and a church united." Just like any other cult, the LDS is a false church that holds everyone else to be wrong. They lie about that fact frequently, of course, but the fact that they conceal their differences with evangelical Christianity doesn't make them any less exclusivistic about their own beliefs. "But I imagine every one of the thousand know the Baptist think Presbyterians are wrong and vice versa. " Of course they do, because it is a fact. The fact that I disagree with Baptists on certain issues (and that I agree with some Baptists who disagree with other Baptists on certain issues) does not mean that I do not consider both of us to be members of the same body. I disagree with Hank here and there (sometimes fervently), but I would say that we both agree on our bond of unity in Christ. The bottom line is that unsaved people merely use denominational differences as an excuse to continue in sinful rebellion against God. I have yet to meet anyone who has said, "I want to be a Christian, but I can't because of all the denominations." Nor have I heard many, if any, Christian evangelists proclaiming their denominational labels in place of Christ and Him crucified (which, incidentally, is precisely what Mormons do). "Of all the religions, all the denominations, all the churches that have tried to evangelize me, I have never been evangelized by a Presbyterian. Maybe they thought I wasn't elected. ;-)" I can't remember being evangelized by an AOG, myself. Maybe they thought speaking in tongues with a Texas accent would be annoying... :) --Joe! |
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4 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | EdB | 82563 | ||
Joe "The bottom line is that unsaved people merely use denominational differences as an excuse to continue in sinful rebellion against God. I have yet to meet anyone who has said, "I want to be a Christian, but I can't because of all the denominations." Nor have I heard many, if any, Christian evangelists proclaiming their denominational labels in place of Christ and Him crucified (which, incidentally, is precisely what Mormons do)." I have in both cases. Rather than trading jabs with you, cause I’m sure if I said red you would say blue. Can you honestly say you believe Christ is happy with the divided church? If not do you think it is incumbent on us to ‘attempt’ to correct the problem or should we ignore the situation and go merrily on our way? EdB |
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5 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | Reformer Joe | 82590 | ||
"Rather than trading jabs with you, cause I’m sure if I said red you would say blue." Yellow, actually. :) "Can you honestly say you believe Christ is happy with the divided church?" No, but He is extremely well-pleased with doctrinal purity wherever it is found. The importance of embracing revealed truth outweighs fellowship for fellowship's sake. "If not do you think it is incumbent on us to ‘attempt’ to correct the problem or should we ignore the situation and go merrily on our way?" Well, if I could correct the problem, you would have embraced Reformed theology a long time ago. Since I cannot force people to change their minds or control how they respond to differences of opinion, I can only follow Scripture's command: "If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men." --Romans 12:18 I respect the right of other believers to disagree with me on many issues. I can and do fellowship with many such individuals. We are members of the same body, with one Lord, one faith, and one baptism, despite the fact that we do not see eye-to-eye on everything. Christian unity despite certain doctrinal disagreements. It is not a question of ignoring the situation. We often reach an impasse with those who disagree with us. The question is whether that doctrinal impasse is significant enough to warrant a division. I agree with the many posters who have affirmed that not all separation is bad separation. For example, if a denomination gets to a point where significant numbers reject the authority of Scripture, is it right to continue to be associated with such a body? If my denomination were to begin ordaining homosexuals to the ministry, how far should I go to maintain an illusion of "unity" before the watching world? If my appeals to Scripture are completely ignored in such a situation, how long should I remain that denomination so that the watching world won't perceive the very real division that exists in that case? Attempting to correct the problem is quite noble, but one also must accept the fact that in our fallen age such resolution will frequently be impossible. --Joe! |
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6 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | EdB | 82642 | ||
Joe I will pass on everything you said, however on this I must comment. While you might call what your follow reformed theology it is really Calvinism. Let's call it for what it is. Many reformers did not hold that view. And your right I could never follow the teachings of Calvin. He created God in his own image and sadly many have been deceived by his tragic view of God. Calvinism is fatalistic removing all responsibility for man’s action from man and basing the final outcome to God’s responsibility. All love and desire to worship God is only present if God so wills it and without that desire man is a destined to eternal damnation. Now I’m sure you will want to tell me I’m wrong and that is okay. But the God I serve, the God of the Bible, that God Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Goid who sent His only begotten Son for whosoever should believe, is far different that the god of Calvin. EdB |
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7 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | Reformer Joe | 82741 | ||
"Many reformers did not hold that view." Which ones didn't? "And your right I could never follow the teachings of Calvin. He created God in his own image and sadly many have been deceived by his tragic view of God. Calvinism is fatalistic removing all responsibility for man’s action from man and basing the final outcome to God’s responsibility. All love and desire to worship God is only present if God so wills it and without that desire man is a destined to eternal damnation." Ah, I see us coming to consensus already! :) You are illustrating perfectly why doctrinal unity will not be achieved in this age. The question is whether you can peacefully coexist with those brethren who disagree with you on this and other points. --Joe! |
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