Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How can God let us go through pain? | 1 Pet 2:24 | heisthe1 | 43002 | ||
Que pasa hermano Those were some great scritures and I'm sure they back up your doctrine (suffering doctrine), but as I mentioned before, I don't believe in it. Lets face it you and some of the other brother's on this forum, you know who you are, the one's who write long enticing words and patting each other's back convincing only yourselves of your (sound) doctrines, but there are many other brother's and sister's who believe that God is still moving in people's lives with healing, deliverance from demonic forces, baptism in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tounges, laying on of hands, etc. you know what I'm speaking of. Bottom line is this, if you don't want all that God wants to offer, then great, I do. There is nothing wrong in disagreeing, can we agree on that! My name is written in the book of Life... You have something against what I just said, take it up with our God, please don't winne. So nice taking to you, got to go to the front line (where the battle is fought) hope to see you there. God bless you and I pray that God will move in your life in a mighty way. Por que Christo es la Vida! |
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2 | How can God let us go through pain? | 1 Pet 2:24 | Emmaus | 43088 | ||
heisthe1, How can we conform ourselves to Christ and take up our cross daily to follow Him without suffering? "Get the behind me Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God, does but as men do.... Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. For whoever looses his life will save it and whoever wishes to save his life will loose it." Matt 16:23-24. No cheap grace! Free but not cheap.If we want to follow Him into glory we must follow Him into suffering and death. Emmaus |
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3 | How can God let us go through pain? | 1 Pet 2:24 | heisthe1 | 43137 | ||
Emmaus I don't believe in the suffering doctrine that you are refering to! Lets take a look at just what the "suffering doctrine" is about: The suffering doctrine has these basic suppositions: Since suffering happens and since God runs and controls everything--then suffering is either authored by God or allowed by God. If God authors or allows suffering it must be: . as the punishment (loving correction, discipline of His children, . so that He can have opportunities to demostrate His faithfulness to us in hard times, . so we in turn can demonstrate our trust in Him is spite of adverse circumstances or . to test our free will and make a way for us to grow spiritually. If God is NOT the author of the suffering then He still allows it as a natural result of our tenure in "the devil's world" where he is its author. Therefor, if we suffer, it must be Gods will that we suffer and: . We should be content with the assurance that God (through His GRACE) will help us get through it. . We should be content with the assurance that God will NEVER ask us to bear any burden which we are unable to bear (even if it KILLS us). . We should be content with the assurance that our suffering WILL end when we DIE (As opposed to the unbeliever whose suffering will never end) This doctrine--as doctrines go--SOUNDS very "religious," lofty, perhaps even pious. But I contend that it falls into a "unique" category of doctrines- "the doctrines of demons." The subtle danger of this doctrine is twofold First is places the believer in a state of non-resistance to the Devil and his darkness, and second, it places the blame (whether called that or not) (directly or indirectly) on God. The fruits of this teaching have been-among others: . pemature death . unnecessary suffering . the belief that God has dropped, left, abandoned of forsaken the person. . loss of faith . living in hypocrisy, (ie., believing a sickness is God's will, yet seeking to be rid of it medically). The primary error of the teaching-is in the primary supposition itself! The supposition that God is running, controlling everything-which is simply not true. God the Father is on His throne in Heaven, Jesus is seated there at His right hand and the Holy Spirit is here with us on earth. The functions of the Holy Spirit are, among others, that of comforter, counselor, teacher, reminder, spokesman, provider of power and giver of divine gifts. The Father and Jesus have ALREADY done- All they are going to do until Jesus returns and gathers His saints. The Father-sent his only begotten Son-to redeem us from the curse of the law. And, the Father-sowed His singular seed (Jesus) into the earth for the express purpose of producing and harvesting an abundant crop of sons of God! Sons that look like, act like and talk like Jesus! Jesus-came here, lived a sinless life, destroyed the works of the Devil wherever he found them and produced good works in their place. He taught and trained students to teach others to be-just like Him. He voluntarily and systematically took upon His own body the full curse of EVERY sin, sickness, disease, dysfunction, perversion and pain, paying the FULL and FINAL penalty FOR us. He did this by taking it upon his body-carrying it all to the cross of Calvary where He became the Atonement for us, by shedding His own blood and dying FOR us, and thereby redeeming us from the curse of the law. Then according to plan, He was buried, and after three days, having defeated the Devil, the Father resurrected Him from the dead. After this HE gave His followers last minute instructions. First to go and wait for the pouring out of the Holy Spirit and second, told them that once they received the Holy Spirit and power, to go into all nation-teaching, preaching, healing-and baptizing those that believe. Then He told them that those that did believe, and were baptized, would-speak in tongues, not be hurt by deadly things, cast out demons in Jesus' name and heal by the laying on of their hands-just as the other followers of Jesus did. Jesus set up an ongoing system to train and equip believers-to continue to: act as Jesus did, say what Jesus said and do what Jesus did. The Father sent the Holy Spirit with the same power and the same gifts that He had provided for Jesus in the earth. Jesus after His resurrection, proclaimed-"ALL AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME!" And then turned around and said that we were to have the same dominion and authority-by the power of attorney-of His Name! The Name of Jesus! What I am saying-is that God the Father delegated running of things here on earth-to Jesus! And that Jesus delegated running of things here on earth-TO US! So, who is supposed to be running things here on Earth? WE ARE! How about that thorn in Paul's side?!! Thanks for your response, God Bless |
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4 | How can God let us go through pain? | 1 Pet 2:24 | Reformer Joe | 43148 | ||
Wow...so much error, so little Scripture! Where to begin? Let's start with the small stuff and then get to the biggest, baddest heresy of all at the end. You started off pretty good: "The suffering doctrine has these basic suppositions: Since suffering happens and since God runs and controls everything--then suffering is either authored by God or allowed by God." Almost perfect. Just don't forget to mention in your thesis that God has purpose in our suffering. You wrote: 'If God authors or allows suffering it must be: . as the punishment (loving correction, discipline of His children, Punishment or discipline, which are not the same thing. I have this book called the Bible which talks all about it. Like David in Psalm 32. And in Hebrews: "You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM; FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES." It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are ILLEGITIMATE CHILDREN and not sons.' --Hebrews 12:4-8 ". so that He can have opportunities to demostrate His faithfulness to us in hard times" Yes, like with Moses in Exodus 6. He tells the Egyptians just what God tells him to say, and that is when the Egyptians makes the life of the Israelites really difficult. And look how God responds: 'Then Moses returned to the LORD and said, "O Lord, why have You brought harm to this people? Why did You ever send me? Ever since I came to Pharaoh to speak in Your name, he has done harm to this people, and You have not delivered Your people at all." Then the LORD said to Moses, "NOW you shall see what I will do to Pharaoh; for under compulsion he will let them go, and under compulsion he will drive them out of his land."' --Exodus 5:22-6:1 And most people know just what SUFFERING he then brought upon Egypt! God demonstrates his power in our weakness (2 Cortinthians 12:9) ". so we in turn can demonstrate our trust in Him is spite of adverse circumstances" Yes, I already quoted 2 Corinthians 12:7-10. It was one of those Bible passages you chose to completely ignore. " or . to test our free will and make a way for us to grow spiritually." Too many passages to quote here, but if you still own a Bible, you can open it up to Romans 5 and 2 Peter 1 and James 1 to see how God foreordains trials for our sanctification. But that's just that old Bible again! You have the true revelation in yourself, right? If your "anti-suffering doctrine" is correct, you are going to have to deal with these Scripture passages, or it is indeed you who are the illegitimate child, following the doctrines of demons. More later. This one is going to take a while! --Joe! |
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