Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | javelin | 154186 | ||
To both WOS and Bradk (and any other anti-tonguesers) : Geeeeezz, you guys are ornery critters. Was kennys' post initially intended as a tongues debate? No. BradK says : "Instead of just bashing, discarding, and dismissing ..., could you not demonstrate your point BIBLICALLY! That's a rather brash assertion." Are you "bashing, discarding, and dismissing" me and my view Brad? What you call brash is witnessed to and related not only in scripture but by tons of historical records, writings of good well approved bibical teachers and etc etc. I would rather say that anyone anti-tongues is brash and rather foolish since it is indeed bibical and no scripture ever states that any of the divine gifts were only for the first century. Kennyittis, again if true, recounted his personal experience. Who the hey are you to say, as so many others here, that it is "not from God" since tongues is long passed" ??!! The truth is that those who deny tongues - simply don't "want" it to be from God as it contradicts what they weree taught by others about it and it endangers their feeling of security in what they think they know. The questions asked were answered in simple and clear style based on the witnesses personal account related to a perfectly bibical doctrine. Are you trying to get me into a huge doctrinal debate because my answer disturbs your personal little box of doctrines ? As for Mark; Yes those signs are all in the same context with snakes and poison - as well as "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieves shall be condemned" Do you wish to debate this also? Is this also obsolete in your view? Or how about casting out devils? Is this an over and done antiquity as well? Or are there no more demons to be exorcised seeing how perfect the church is today (perfect? hahahahaha)? I suggest you debate the Holy Spirit Himself - see what He has to say for Himself. Paul spent 3 chapters worth on it, not to mention all other bibical references. Instead of leaving kennyittis with nothing more than evidence as to how foolishly divisive xtians are, it would be wise to either start a genuine bibical debate in another post... Or, stop trying to answer his simple question based on his own testified experience with your own anti views on the subject. As for WOS' "was i there" etc. Why do you not ask if kennyittis is a reliable witness to his own experiences or if he is not rather a liar or a dupe? "How can you know? Where you there? Do you know what the words he uttered mean?" no, so what - your questions apply to you as well. I simply believe the witness and make the correlation with clear scripture. You simply want a doctrinal debate cause you dont like "tongues today". "Maybe then, you can share with and so edify the rest of us. If Kennyittis has no understanding of the word, how does it edify him?" ask Jesus Christ or Paul, it is His doctrine not mine! "For he that speaks in a tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God; for no man understands; but in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he that prophesies speaks unto men edification, and exhortation, and consolation. 4 He that speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but he that prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I would have you all speak with tongues..." you know the rest. "Thus, how do you perceive to know it was from God?" - mere analysis of his description of the event. How do you or anyone else for that matter, perceive to know it was not from God? How does anyone know anything about what any witness says? If you want a debate on tongues start another post and go for it. I'll gladly join in. Peace! this was not a debate posting and the correlation I make is scriptural as you well know! It's not kennyittis' fault or mine that you do not believe either him nor clear, simple scripture. |
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2 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | Wild Olive Shoot | 154190 | ||
Javelin, My friend, first of all, you accuse me of being “anti-tongue”. If you would take a little time to look into my posts on this forum, you would see that in fact, I am not. Ref. Post number (148377). The fact of the matter is, I still debate the gift of tongues with myself. I believe they still exist, but are used in this day and age in an improper manner and that if truth be told, many who claim this experience, are falsely testifying. That being said, I would like to address just a few things in your post because quite frankly, some of it is”hogwash”… You stated: “Kennyittis, again if true, recounted his personal experience. Who the hey are you to say, as so many others here, that it is "not from God" since tongues is long passed" ??!!” I never said that at all. I don’t believe I even addressed Kennyittis and his post. My debate was with elektos and the sources he used to support his position on tongues. We addressed that, he and I, and have come to the conclusion to peacefully disagree. I also asked Brenda to use scriptural evidence for her claim. But I don’t think I addressed Kennyittis. You then stated: “"How can you know? Where you there? Do you know what the words he uttered mean?" no, so what - your questions apply to you as well.” I was not there. Again, I never told Kennyittis that his vision was Godly or not. But how can you honestly give him the reassurance that it was? You can’t and therefore should not have. What if the source of his vision was not from God? Should he continue down the road you suggested? Statements like that can be very detrimental to someone when you offer them and haven’t the full facts of the case. You need to check yourself in the pattern of offering irresponsible and rash advise. The devil will fool even the elect if he could. Since you don’t know the basis of Kennyittis’ vision, you cannot possibly affirm that it was from God. You then state: “I simply believe the witness and make the correlation with clear scripture.” That is all the BradK asked you for. Frankly, until you can offer some biblical support, what you post is your opinion and rather dismissible because we all know what worldly wisdom and opinions can offer. Back up what you state with Scripture. It is quite simple really. You then offered this: “"Thus, how do you perceive to know it was from God?" - mere analysis of his description of the event. How do you or anyone else for that matter, perceive to know it was not from God? How does anyone know anything about what any witness says?” Go back to Kennyittis’ post. He never confirmed the vision was from God. What he said was this: “i believe i had a vision”. So he wasn’t sure if it was even a vision. But according to you, it was and it was from God. Very dangerous assumption my friend, unless, God has spoken to you as well and informed you of such. I’ll leave this discussion as I have left others that will not be productive. Christ be with you, and maybe we can discuss other issues in a more peaceful manner. WOS P.S. Just a word of caution, there are many on this forum and simply all around who do use Scripture to support their views that tongues have ceased. They offer very well rounded, scriptural evidence. If you intend to debate that, I would suggest you yourself do the same. |
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3 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | javelin | 154205 | ||
My response WOS, if you re-read was both to you and anyone who is against tongues - not just to you - so I did not accuse you personally of anything. I always take into account the presence of other readers when responding to a rebuttal. "If Kennyittis has no understanding of the word, how does it edify him?" - this question, all by itself, is a clear implication that you either do not believe in tongues or that while believing you carry much doubt over it and don't believe Paul's words. For, even if it were true that tongues were a thing of the past, this question implies doubt as to it's usefulness as though God would give His children useless gifts! Therefore it was a reasonable conclusion on my part that you, as well as so many others, are anti-tongues. If this is not so then I apologize for this conclusion though it was rational. As for my "hogwash", we'll have to take a look see right? As for my response to K. you say, "But how can you honestly give him the reassurance that it was? You can’t and therefore should not have. What if the source of his vision was not from God?" This is a very good point. However, if one were to respond to all xtian forum questions on the basis of that logic one could answer no one who claims to have any experince whatsoever including salvation and virtually all well known, well documented xtian experiences. Not without all kinds of searchings. But I take your point readily as it expresses a reasonable doubt. "Should he continue down the road you suggested? Statements like that can be very detrimental to someone when you offer them and haven’t the full facts of the case. You need to check yourself in the pattern of offering irresponsible and rash advise. The devil will fool even the elect if he could. Since you don’t know the basis of Kennyittis’ vision, you cannot possibly affirm that it was from God." Nor can anyone else affirm it wasn't - my affirmation, as I repeatedly state is based on his speaking the truth. I at 1st wrote "probably" to this question. Then I changed it to "yes" so as not to provide doubt in kenny as to the value of his experience. Yet, you are missing something vital in this - It is written, "Luk 11:11 And what father is there among you, who, if his son asks for a slice of bread, will offer him a stone? or if he asks for a fish, will instead of a fish offer him a snake? 12 or if he asks for an egg, will offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give your children gifts that are good for them, how much more certainly will your Father, who is in Heaven, give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" Do you also put this in doubt? Do any of you really suppose a sincere xtian may ask the Father for the Holy Spirit and instead receive the devil's trash or anything spiritually harmful!?! If so, I say, shame on you! The only thing you may correctly say about my answer to kennyittis is that I supposed he is a true xtian in the 1st place - which I probably should not do even though this is supposed to be a xtian site! As for your response "So he wasn’t sure if it was even a vision" - you are putting words in his mouth that he did not say. Perhaps we should 1st ask kennyittis if he is indeed a true xtian - (put that in doubt as well?) - then if he says "yes" then we must ask him if he believes he did indeed have a vision or not. Unfortunately, most of those who deny the scriptural tongues also deny all the other gifts - and visions as well. You also use the meaning of "belief" to your own purpose - do you "believe" you are a xtian? does that mean you are not sure ?!? As to "not using scripture", again I refer you to the scriptures I quoted which you apparently didn't read or believe. If you need more I already suggested a new post on tongues as this IS NOT the purpose of this subject in the 1st place as I also keep stating. And as to "well-rounded, scriptural evidence that tongues have ceased", after more than 40 years as a xtian and 1000's of debates on various bibical subjects like this, I have yet to see one scrap of any such as "evidence" from scripture. |
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4 | tongues | Eph 4:14 | Wild Olive Shoot | 154237 | ||
I do not "believe" that I am a Christian. I know. Big difference. Have a nice day. |
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