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NASB | Ephesians 4:14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Ephesians 4:14 So that we are no longer children [spiritually immature], tossed back and forth [like ships on a stormy sea] and carried about by every wind of [shifting] doctrine, by the cunning and trickery of [unscrupulous] men, by the deceitful scheming of people ready to do anything [for personal profit]. |
Subject: tongues |
Bible Note: My response WOS, if you re-read was both to you and anyone who is against tongues - not just to you - so I did not accuse you personally of anything. I always take into account the presence of other readers when responding to a rebuttal. "If Kennyittis has no understanding of the word, how does it edify him?" - this question, all by itself, is a clear implication that you either do not believe in tongues or that while believing you carry much doubt over it and don't believe Paul's words. For, even if it were true that tongues were a thing of the past, this question implies doubt as to it's usefulness as though God would give His children useless gifts! Therefore it was a reasonable conclusion on my part that you, as well as so many others, are anti-tongues. If this is not so then I apologize for this conclusion though it was rational. As for my "hogwash", we'll have to take a look see right? As for my response to K. you say, "But how can you honestly give him the reassurance that it was? You can’t and therefore should not have. What if the source of his vision was not from God?" This is a very good point. However, if one were to respond to all xtian forum questions on the basis of that logic one could answer no one who claims to have any experince whatsoever including salvation and virtually all well known, well documented xtian experiences. Not without all kinds of searchings. But I take your point readily as it expresses a reasonable doubt. "Should he continue down the road you suggested? Statements like that can be very detrimental to someone when you offer them and haven’t the full facts of the case. You need to check yourself in the pattern of offering irresponsible and rash advise. The devil will fool even the elect if he could. Since you don’t know the basis of Kennyittis’ vision, you cannot possibly affirm that it was from God." Nor can anyone else affirm it wasn't - my affirmation, as I repeatedly state is based on his speaking the truth. I at 1st wrote "probably" to this question. Then I changed it to "yes" so as not to provide doubt in kenny as to the value of his experience. Yet, you are missing something vital in this - It is written, "Luk 11:11 And what father is there among you, who, if his son asks for a slice of bread, will offer him a stone? or if he asks for a fish, will instead of a fish offer him a snake? 12 or if he asks for an egg, will offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give your children gifts that are good for them, how much more certainly will your Father, who is in Heaven, give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" Do you also put this in doubt? Do any of you really suppose a sincere xtian may ask the Father for the Holy Spirit and instead receive the devil's trash or anything spiritually harmful!?! If so, I say, shame on you! The only thing you may correctly say about my answer to kennyittis is that I supposed he is a true xtian in the 1st place - which I probably should not do even though this is supposed to be a xtian site! As for your response "So he wasn’t sure if it was even a vision" - you are putting words in his mouth that he did not say. Perhaps we should 1st ask kennyittis if he is indeed a true xtian - (put that in doubt as well?) - then if he says "yes" then we must ask him if he believes he did indeed have a vision or not. Unfortunately, most of those who deny the scriptural tongues also deny all the other gifts - and visions as well. You also use the meaning of "belief" to your own purpose - do you "believe" you are a xtian? does that mean you are not sure ?!? As to "not using scripture", again I refer you to the scriptures I quoted which you apparently didn't read or believe. If you need more I already suggested a new post on tongues as this IS NOT the purpose of this subject in the 1st place as I also keep stating. And as to "well-rounded, scriptural evidence that tongues have ceased", after more than 40 years as a xtian and 1000's of debates on various bibical subjects like this, I have yet to see one scrap of any such as "evidence" from scripture. |