Results 1 - 2 of 2
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Lionstrong, this is not universalism. | Eph 3:6 | Bill Mc | 19036 | ||
Dear Joe, The fact that God works through us is not 'sitting back and watching.' It is not being a puppet. Look at Christ's life, dear brother. I won't list all the scripture references because 1) it don't have them all memorized and 2) I know that you know scripture: 1. Christ did nothing unless the Father told Him to do it. 2. Christ said nothing unless the Father told Him to say it. 3. The miracles that Christ did, the Father enabled Him and told Him to do them. 4. Christ said, "I do nothing of My own accord (initiative). I ONLY do what I see My Father doing. 5. Christ said, "Not My will, but Thine be done." 5. Christ said, "Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING." This was Christ's attitude. Although He could have, being God, exercised His full Deity, He did not do so. He temporarily set His divine prerogatives aside and relied COMPLETELY on the Father, did He not? Now, Joe, would you characterize Christ's life as one of sitting back and watching the Father? Would you say that Christ was a mere puppet for the Father? Do you think that because He 100 percent relied upon the Father that that made Him passive, inactive, lazy, unmotivated, useless and without purpose? Hardly, my friend. Christ was an active participant in the Father's work. He did indeed become a servant but He was hardly a mindless automiton. This is my point, brother. You seem to think that I am advocating so mindless, 'Yes, mastuh...' relationship. Far from it. Yes, Paul lived His life. Yes, I live my life. But also Christ lives in us and through us. We are to live as Christ lived, in faith and complete reliance upon Him as our source just as the Father was His source. "As the Father has sent Me, so send I you." I'll be honest with you, Joe. This 'God living and working through me' is hard to comprehend intellectually. That is why it is by faith. Faithfully is He who called you, Who will do it. He who began a good work in you, will be faithful to complete it. Here's the truth, dear brother in Christ - if you are doing ANYTHING apart from His enablement (Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING. I can do ALL THINGS THRU CHRIST) you are operating in your flesh. Even your good works. Check out Paul's 'good flesh' qualifications in Phil chapter 3. He was without equal when it came to pleasing God through the Law. Then see, if you don't already know, how Paul sums up all those good works. In Christ but hardly In Active, Bill Mc |
||||||
2 | Lionstrong, this is not universalism. | Eph 3:6 | Reformer Joe | 19055 | ||
Bill: Again, I agree completely that we can do nothing that is pleasing to God apart from the empowerment by His Spirit. I have never suggested that we can, because to do so would violate the entire message of the New Testament. However, the very verses you cite, and the example of Christ, show that while Christ acted on the initiative of the Father, and by the power of the Spirit, it was CHRIST doing these things, not the Father through him. The problem I have with the notion of "Christ living His life through me" is that it is completely foreign to the idea that by God's empowerment, I am the one living the life. I can take no credit for the sanctification in me, just as Paul considers all of his "upward mobility" to be rubbish in light of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus as Lord. However, it is also true that the Holy Spirit is not merely using me as a conduit, but rather is changing ME and making ME more like the Son in righteous living. One other thing: Paul wasn't pleasing God through the Law before. That was his whole point. --Joe! |
||||||