Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Lionstrong, this is not universalism. | Eph 3:6 | Bill Mc | 18975 | ||
Dear Joe, Salvation is not just being forgiven. Salvation is the impartation of eternal LIFE. Jesus did not come to just provide forgiveness for our sins. He came that we might have LIFE (zoe), eternal life. "I come that you might have LIFE, and LIFE abundantly." "He who has the Son has the LIFE, he who does not have the Son of God does not have the LIFE." "I AM the Way, the Truth, and the LIFE." "I AM the resurrection and the LIFE." "You search the scriptures because you think that in them you'll find eternal LIFE, but you won't come to ME." Salvation is being saved from the wages of sin, spiritual death, by the free gift of God, eternal LIFE. This LIFE is imparted by the Holy Spirit to our spirit. "The Spirit is LIFE. The flesh counts for nothing." This is exactly why sins had to be forgiven. If our sins had not been forgiven, the first time we, as Christians, sinned after receiving God's Spirit, He would depart from us. Now Christ can say, "I'll never leave you or forsake you," because the only thing that could make Him do so, sin, has been eternally dealt with by the cross and Christ's blood. Joe, this is why your position cannot be true. Forgiveness is offered to the whole world. Salvation (LIFE) is offered to the whole world. But we must receive it. It's a gift. Forgiveness is a gift and so is righteousness before God. But, Joe, for a gift to be effectual, it must be offered by the Provider and received by the recipient. Forgiveness deals with our sins. It takes them away. But God's LIFE deals with the sinner, "While we were still sinners, God made us ALIVE together with Jesus Christ." In Christ, Bill Mc |
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2 | Lionstrong, this is not universalism. | Eph 3:6 | Bill Mc | 18978 | ||
Dear Joe, one other note. If the forgiveness of sins on the cross is the total embodiment of being saved, Paul would never has said, "If Christ is not raised from the dead, you are STILL in your sins." Christ has become, for us, a LIFE giving Spirit. If He had not been raised from the dead, He could not impart eternal LIFE to us now. LIFE begets LIFE. You can't get LIFE from something that is dead. Jesus Christ gave His physical life for us (to take away our sins), so that He could give His spiritual LIFE to us (through the Holy Spirit), so that He can live His LIFE through us. "I no longer live, but Christ lives in me." Living in Christ, Bill Mc |
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3 | Lionstrong, this is not universalism. | Eph 3:6 | Reformer Joe | 19021 | ||
Bill: I never meant to imply that the resurrection was not an essential component of the gospel message. I apologize if I led you to believe that I held such a view. The point Paul makes is in 1 Corinthians 15 is that if ther is no resurrection at all (the view he was challenging), then even Christ is not raised, making Paul and other evangelists false witnesses. Therefore, Christ would be a false Savior and there would be no resurrection for the believer at the end of the age. Note that the future PHYSICAL resurrection of the believer is the central idea that Paul is putting forward, not the indwelling life of the Holy Spirit. Reading the whole chapter makes that clear and puts 15:17 in its context. Now what does Paul mean when he says in Galatians 2:20 that "I no longer live, but Christ lives in me." One thing that it cannot mean is that he is stepping aside and letting Christ work through him as some kind of cosmic puppeteer. The rest of that verse makes it clear that he is still living his own life: "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and THE LIFE WHICH I NOW LIVE in the flesh I LIVE by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." Countless other passages in the epistles, via specific commandments to holy living in the believer, make it plain that being a Christian is not sitting back and watching/allowing Christ to live out His life though our bodies, but rather conforming ourselves to His will (Romans 12:1-2) and obeying Him (Hebrews 5:8). It is the Holy Spirit who works the changes in our spirits to please God, and He who gives us the power to live the Christian life, but the Bible also says that we strive and labor and walk and work and buffet our bodies and discipline ourselves and even suffer for His sake. Thanks again for your comments. I look forward to your reply. --Joe! |
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4 | Lionstrong, this is not universalism. | Eph 3:6 | Bill Mc | 19036 | ||
Dear Joe, The fact that God works through us is not 'sitting back and watching.' It is not being a puppet. Look at Christ's life, dear brother. I won't list all the scripture references because 1) it don't have them all memorized and 2) I know that you know scripture: 1. Christ did nothing unless the Father told Him to do it. 2. Christ said nothing unless the Father told Him to say it. 3. The miracles that Christ did, the Father enabled Him and told Him to do them. 4. Christ said, "I do nothing of My own accord (initiative). I ONLY do what I see My Father doing. 5. Christ said, "Not My will, but Thine be done." 5. Christ said, "Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING." This was Christ's attitude. Although He could have, being God, exercised His full Deity, He did not do so. He temporarily set His divine prerogatives aside and relied COMPLETELY on the Father, did He not? Now, Joe, would you characterize Christ's life as one of sitting back and watching the Father? Would you say that Christ was a mere puppet for the Father? Do you think that because He 100 percent relied upon the Father that that made Him passive, inactive, lazy, unmotivated, useless and without purpose? Hardly, my friend. Christ was an active participant in the Father's work. He did indeed become a servant but He was hardly a mindless automiton. This is my point, brother. You seem to think that I am advocating so mindless, 'Yes, mastuh...' relationship. Far from it. Yes, Paul lived His life. Yes, I live my life. But also Christ lives in us and through us. We are to live as Christ lived, in faith and complete reliance upon Him as our source just as the Father was His source. "As the Father has sent Me, so send I you." I'll be honest with you, Joe. This 'God living and working through me' is hard to comprehend intellectually. That is why it is by faith. Faithfully is He who called you, Who will do it. He who began a good work in you, will be faithful to complete it. Here's the truth, dear brother in Christ - if you are doing ANYTHING apart from His enablement (Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING. I can do ALL THINGS THRU CHRIST) you are operating in your flesh. Even your good works. Check out Paul's 'good flesh' qualifications in Phil chapter 3. He was without equal when it came to pleasing God through the Law. Then see, if you don't already know, how Paul sums up all those good works. In Christ but hardly In Active, Bill Mc |
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5 | Lionstrong, this is not universalism. | Eph 3:6 | Reformer Joe | 19055 | ||
Bill: Again, I agree completely that we can do nothing that is pleasing to God apart from the empowerment by His Spirit. I have never suggested that we can, because to do so would violate the entire message of the New Testament. However, the very verses you cite, and the example of Christ, show that while Christ acted on the initiative of the Father, and by the power of the Spirit, it was CHRIST doing these things, not the Father through him. The problem I have with the notion of "Christ living His life through me" is that it is completely foreign to the idea that by God's empowerment, I am the one living the life. I can take no credit for the sanctification in me, just as Paul considers all of his "upward mobility" to be rubbish in light of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus as Lord. However, it is also true that the Holy Spirit is not merely using me as a conduit, but rather is changing ME and making ME more like the Son in righteous living. One other thing: Paul wasn't pleasing God through the Law before. That was his whole point. --Joe! |
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