Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What if willfully return to a sinning li | Eph 1:11 | Morant61 | 141419 | ||
Greetings Mark! That is exactly what Spurgeon is saying! :-) Personally, I believe that there is a much easier way of explaining this passage. Here is a portion of a previous post I made on this passage. ************************************* Thanks for your patience! I was hesitant to go beyond what I wrote because of the difficulty of the verse. So, I have been doing some more research. Here is what I have concluded! The problem with Heb. 6:6 is that all of the verbs in this verse occur only one time in the New Testament. This makes it very difficult to be dogmatic about what they mean, since we have no context to compare them with. With that in mind, I believe the following: 1) That the author is writting to Christians, not pagans or hearers only! 2) That this passage is describing a continuing attitude or action! 3) That the person who persists in this attitude is lost! 4) That any sin or attitude can be repented of! Let's look at the progress of the passage. Beginning in verse 4, the passage says that it is impossible to renew to repentance those who: * have been enlighted (aorist participle). * have partaken of the heavenly gift (aorist participle). * have shared in the Holy Spirit (aorist participle). * have tasted the word of God (aorist participle). * have fallen away (aorist participle). The key, I think, is found in the last two verbs. I believe that they give the reason why these people cannot be brought to repentance again. These two verbs say that: * they are cruciying afresh (present participle). * they are exposing Him to public disgrace (present participle). All of the other verbs are aorist participles. They describe past actions. These last two are present participles describing present actions and attitudes. I think that the people described here are similar to those in Heb. 10:26 and 10:29. They are believers who despise the blood of Christ and wilfully sin against Him. The context of Heb. 6:7-8 would seem to support this. But, here is the key point. The impossiblity of renewing them to repentance seems to be tied to their current and ongoing attitude. I don't see anything is the passage that indicates that such a person can never be saved again or can never repent. It is impossible now, because they are crucifying, they are publicly shaming Christ, and they are sinning wilfully. If that attitude changes, I don't see any grammatical reason why they could not repent. One of the basic rules of interpretation is to let clear Scripture interpret less clear Scripture. Heb. 6:6 is not real clear. But, 1 John 1:9 is clear. No where else in Scripture are we told that it is impossible for someone to repent. Therefore, I would say that Heb. 6:6 desribes the lost condition of those who are actively and currently rejecting Christ wilfully. As long as they remain in this state of rejection, it is impossible for the to repent, since salvation is found only in the Christ they are rejecting. If they have a change of attitude toward Christ, I believe that this passage would no longer apply to them. ************************************** Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | What if willfully return to a sinning li | Eph 1:11 | mark d seyler | 141420 | ||
Hi Tim, Thank you for your confirmation, and your thoughts on this difficult (indeed) passage. I know that we agree that we cannot lose salvation by our works. You have stated that you believe the Bible teaches that we can, as a born again believer, then reject Christ, and in that way lose salvation. Is that correct? Or have I misunderstood? Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | What if willfully return to a sinning li | Eph 1:11 | Morant61 | 141422 | ||
Greetings Mark! I wouldn't use the word 'lose'! :-) We can lose a wallet without realizing it. I do believe, per for example Heb. 6, that a believer could willfully reject Christ, but I have only ever known one person that I believe has done so. I can't imagine willfully rejecting Christ. He simply means to much to me. I know that I have always taught that while we can't 'lose' salvation because of acts of sin, acts of sin can harden our hearts to the point that we could reject Christ. So, sin does matter for Christians. We certainly don't have a license to sin. Paul affirmed this point! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | What if willfully return to a sinning li | Eph 1:11 | mark d seyler | 141428 | ||
Hi Tim, Granted that we are not so much speaking of losing a wallet; more like forcing it thru the shredder! :-) I agree we need to let the clear scriptures speak to the less clear. My difficulty with imagining that a truly born again believer would actually reject Christ Jesus and walk away comes from verses such as these: 1Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (This says to me that I am kept by God's power, not by my perserverance - can sin in my life prove stronger than the power of God, stronger than His chastening?) I Peter 1 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever (this says to me that the Word of God, that incorruptible seed, will stay in me forever - if I "send it away", it did not stay forever.) I John 5:13 that ye may know that ye have eternal life, (again, if I "cease to have" eternal life, it was not actually eternal. If there is the chance that I might reject Jesus and cease to live, how can I know now that I have eternal life?) Please let nothing I say be construed to mean that I believe sin is to be in any wise tolerated, excused, allowed. . . If a person is not involved in the daily struggle to not sin, I would question their "re-birth". I think that, since God is just, if one of us were to actually decide to reject Him He would allow it, not forcing us, but I think that the new nature He has given us will not do that. May it be so! Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | What if willfully return to a sinning li | Eph 1:11 | Morant61 | 141456 | ||
Greetings Mark! It is definitely a complex issue! :-) As I said earlier, I have only ever known of one person that I believe would fit the Heb. 6 passage. He has completely turned his back on Christ and has embraced new age teachings now. Allow me to address your references quickly. 1) 1 Peter 1:5 certainly does teach that we are 'kept' by God's power. But, does this mean that we cannot reject God? I would say no in light of the many passage that do speak of falling away. Heb. 6 is just one example of such a passage. I found it interesting that even Spurgeon accepted that Heb. 6 describes a Christian. :-) 2) In your second verse, I would disagree that the Word abides IN US forever. The Word of God is the means, but nothing in the verse says anything about it abiding in US forever. It simply affirms that the Word of God abides forever. 3) 1 John 5:13: This is one of my favorite arguements! :-) It sounds good, but there is a logical fallacy involved in the arguement. The arguement is based on 'eternal' being unending. However, 'eternal' also means without beginning as well. So, if someone enters into 'eternal life', is that life really eternal? ;-) So, I would say that if 'eternal life' can begin, it can certainly end! As far as your last point is concerned, I would say that we definitely have a new nature, but Paul clearly teaches in Rom. 8 and Gal. 5 that we can choose to obey or disobey that new nature. So, I'm not sure that I would say that the new nature 'will not' do that! I appreciate your posts my friend! I also appreciate your gentle spirit! We may not see this issue exactly the same way, but I believe that we are certainly closer than not! :-) We would both agree that a 'Christian' who habitually sins is probably not a Christian to begin with! We would both agree that grace is not an excuse for Christians to sin. It is funny! I am supposed to sing this Sunday during our morning service, and I am planning on singing Ray Boltz' "Feel the Nails". This song asks the question if Christ still feels the nails everytime I sin. How could any Christian want to continue the very same things that led to the death of our Savior? :-( May we all live lifes that will be holy and pleasing to our Lord! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | What if willfully return to a sinning li | Eph 1:11 | mark d seyler | 141475 | ||
Hi Tim, I have appreciated discussing this with you as well! I did a survey of some of my commentaries last night, and found each one I looked at (Scofield, Henry, Jaimeson Fauset Brown, Chuck Smith, David Guzik) all considered the Hebrews 6 passage to be speaking of non-christians. Of course each one had a different spin on it, and I am not sure how much I really gained by reading these. David Guzik brought up that of all the words used to describe these people, faith was not one. Like I said to Ed, ultimately, in my life, it really comes to semantics in how this issue relates to me. Either a person is "born-again" and "dies again", or the fallen away was not reborn to begin with. Either way, they are in serious trouble. To the one who is walking and abiding in Christ, let us continue do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God! Love in Christ, Mark |
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7 | What if willfully return to a sinning li | Eph 1:11 | Morant61 | 141495 | ||
Greetings Mark! Agreed! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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