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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | O.T. Israel salvation? | John 6:49 | charis | 36604 | ||
Dear Greg Martin, Greetings in the name of Jesus! Brother, with all due respect, I have to ask if you have read any of my posts at all. (?) I have been championing the sovereignty of God, the efficacy of faith and the assurance of the believer for some time on this forum. Please do not accuse me of trying to thwart God. Please explain where I doubt the power of God before you cry, "Shame on your arrogance!" Perhaps you have me confused with someone else? :-) Peace and joy in Christ Jesus, charis |
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2 | O.T. Israel salvation? | John 6:49 | Greg Martin | 36719 | ||
Yes, I know you've argued that you can't lose your salvation, but let me say a couple of things. First, that admonishment is not a condemnation. I think if you heard me think the way it was written you would have heard the tongue in my cheek as I wrote it! But I wrote it to make you think. Second, even though you argued the opposite of Zach (how do you type that cross symbol?), there were words of ambivalence in your posts: "Zach†, I am not a 5,4,3 or 2-point anything, so I have no absolute position to defend. :-) I can see your point about the possibility of losing salvation. " I can't. Not at all. But I apologize, if this was harsh. As I review the posts I see that it was really that one quote that influence me to address my comments to both of you. I was afraid you might be faltering in your direction and wished to prop you up. I guess it wouldn't be the first time I've gotten into trouble on a forum by not explaining myself adequately. I had thought about not addressing the post to you, but I left you on it just in case. So I apologize again, but I hope you took the opportunity of my error to do a self-check. We all need that from time to time. |
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3 | O.T. Israel salvation? | John 6:49 | charis | 36749 | ||
Dear Greg Martin, Greetings in Jesus' name! Trust me, my friend, I AM thinking! Even before your 'tongue-in-cheek admonishment.' :-) There are several ways to make the "†" symbol, bu the easiest is to copy-and-paste it into the post, just like you did! Greg, I am not being ambivalent at all. I am being honest enough to admit that the 'saved-by-faithfulness' team has a point. There ARE many Scriptures that seem to say that salvation can be lost. My stand is that it is 'nigh-impossible' to lose salvation, that for all intents and purposes our salvation is secure. On the other hand, your method of saying that, "We are absolutely saved, BUT if we act like we are unsaved then we were never really saved!" is a cop-out. You end up saying the exact same thing as the 'salvation-by-maintained-faithfulness' crowd. In fact, I think they are more honest in their judgement! At least they admit that they are making an earthly judgement on a heavenly decision. :-) Peace to you, my brother! I think my 'ambivalence' gives God all glory and sovereignty, gives the believer assurance that God is in control, yet makes room for God to alter His judgement if He sees fit! Why would God do this? I don't know, and honestly don't lose sleep over it! I preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the lost and the saved. I preach holiness, but not out of constant fear of hell (though that possibility exists! but 'once lost, always lost!'[?] 'one-shot grace!' [?]), but to please God! To me, pleasing God is a worthy (and holy!) endeavor, If you want to see and hear how I balance these things, you will have to come to Yokohama! :-) In Christ Jesus, charis |
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4 | O.T. Israel salvation? | John 6:49 | Greg Martin | 37326 | ||
charis, You said that I am saying "We are absolutely saved, BUT if we act like we are unsaved then we were never really saved!" and that this "is a cop-out" I am not saying that at all. A person can be saved and commit sin. As Paul says, when we sin grace abounds. His point is that our sin after salvation proves the great grace that it is. And then of course he adds that we should strive not to sin. If sinners were never saved, no one was ever saved! I am not saying that if someone continues in sin they never were saved. What I am saying is that some that said all the right words and went forward "just in case" or because "I've got nothing to lose (none of my friends are here..)" did not get saved. Their heart was not right and only in total humility and repentance can one be saved. Only God can make this judgement. None of us can ever know this about another person; Only them and God. To say that God can alter His judgement is to say He was wrong at first. This can not possibly be the case. All I can say about someone continuing in sin after being saved is that yes it can happen, but it generally would only happen with tears and repentance after each time. This does not mean they wouldn't continue, but I guarantee God will correct His children, and they will be in torment over it. (This of course ignores mental illness or brain damage, etc). So Once saved, it is permanent and no one can alter it. God did it and He is not ever wrong. Once saved, the Spirit convicts you and continues to witness Christ to you. So sin occurs with considerable anguish and torment. The result is a broken heart in repentance asking forgiveness and a clean heart, to remove the cursed sin. Only God knows whether a person is saved or not. If sin continues without such torment, it is likely that the saving never ocurred because the heart was never broken. The Spirit living in the believer will not allow sin without anguish. And finally, many good people with less sin than some saved, are also not saved because they have not utterly smashed their heart to give to Christ, after all, "they are a good person". |
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