Results 1 - 4 of 4
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15194 | ||
Dear Steve, I'm sure I'll be flailed alive for this one but you asked... Consider: Eph 1:7 In Him we have (present tense) redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace. Eph 4:32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven (past tense) you. Col 1:14 in whom we have (present tense) redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven (past tense) us all (ALL) our transgressions, 1 John 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven (past tense)you for His name's sake. Heb 9:26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Heb 10:17 "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." Heb 10:18 Now where there is forgiveness (present tense) of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. Acts 10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." Luke 23:34 But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." Did the Father answer this prayer? Did He forgive us? Upon what basis did He forgive us? Heb 9:22 makes it clear that the shedding of blood is the ONLY thing that provides forgiveness. I don't believe that Christ was speaking to His crucifiers here. No one was there asking for forgiveness (not even the thief asked to have his sins forgiven). But Christ was born under law and He taught under law. If you are going to say that our forgiveness is now dependant upon whether or not we forgive others, you are going to have to rip out all these other verses that speak of forgiveness being past tense and something that every Christian professes. The ONLY way I have ever found to reconcile these passages is to understand the new covenant in Christ's blood that was shed for the remission of sins. Here's a challenge: Other than 1 John 1:9 that I believe Christians erroneously try to make applicable to believers as a 'bar of soap' to keep us clean before a holy God, find one, just one, other passage of scripture after Christ's death on the cross, where we are told to ask for forgiveness from God. (James 5:16 doesn't count because it is talking about confessing our sins to one another so we can be healed.) Was doesn't Paul (who wrote 2/3 of the NT) even once mention to ask God to forgive us for sins. Why not Peter? Surely he knew the importance of forgiveness. How did 1st century Christians ever stay in fellowship with God until 95 AD when 1 John was written? They must have all been out of fellowship with God for, gosh, 62 years! What do you think, Steve? In Christ, Bill Mc IN MY OPINION (based upon scripture), no it does not apply. |
||||||
2 | Does this apply to Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Morant61 | 15236 | ||
Greetngs Bill Mc! Just out of curiosity: What does Mt. 6:15 mean? What does 1 John 1:9 mean? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
3 | Is 1 John 1:9 for Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Bill Mc | 15238 | ||
Hi Tim, Thanks for the response. To answer your questions, in my opinion: Matthew 6:15 means that, before Christ died to provide the 'taking away of sin' and reconciliation with God that we now enjoy, if you didn't forgive others, then God would not forgive you. This verse is pretty clear. Jesus cited another example of this economy - the man who was forgiven much. 1 John 1:9 answers 1 John 1:8. Look at the charateristics that Paul cites there in verse 8. These people 1) say they have no sin and are 2) thereby self-decieved and 3) the truth is not in them. Verse 10 adds further clarification. These people again 1) say they have not EVER sinned and are 2)thereby calling God a liar (because Rom 3:23 says ALL have sinned) and 3) His word (Who is the Word?) is not in them. Do these characteristics define believers in Christ? Now that the Holy Spirit indwells you, would you: 1) Say you have NO sin? 2) Not have the truth (the Spirit of Christ) in you? (See 2 John 1:2 - the truth abides in us forever) 3) Say you have NEVER sinned? 4) Call God a liar? 5) Not have His Word in you? (Again, see 2 John 1:2) I don't believe that these are characteristics of a Christian. In fact, in order to become a Christian, we must: 1) Agree (confess) with God that we have a sin nature. 2) Accept the truth (what God says about us) and be indwelt by the Spirit of truth. 3) Agree (confess) with God that we have sinned, all have (except Christ). 4) Recognize that God is the source of all truth and that He is not a liar. 5) Accept His Word and, thereby, allow it to dwell in us. So, Tim, I believe that 1 John 1:9 addresses these people described in verses 8 and 10. John says, "If you confess (agree with God) about your sin nature and your acts of sinning, then God is faithful and just to forgive (why? because of Christ's shed blood) you and He will cleanse you from ALL (not just past, but past, present, future) unrighteousness (sin). Obviously, Tim, I am NOT saying that a Christian does not confess their sins. Confession is agreeing with God. A Christian, by his partaking of the new divine nature, we MUST agree with God concerning the sin issue. But we confess our sins to allow God to renew our minds, not to seek further forgiveness. Please permit me to ask, what is the ONLY thing, in scripture, that provides for the remission (removal) of sin? Hebrews says that without the shedding of blood, there is NO forgiveness. So, if you require further forgiveness of sin between you and God, what will need to happen? Was Christ blood sufficient to forgive ALL your sins or only some? In Him, Bill Mc |
||||||
4 | Is 1 John 1:9 for Christians? | Matt 6:15 | Morant61 | 15248 | ||
Hi Bill Mc! Thanks for your response! Concerning Mt. 6:14-15, I've always viewed it as a warning that Christians have a proper attitude toward others. Notice the example you used of the man who was forgiven much. He was already forgiven, but refused to extend that forgiveness to others. So, I think Mt. 6:14-15 is a warning that we had better extend the forgiveness we have received to others as well. Concerning 1 John 1:9, you have layed out one way of understanding the passage. But, there is another way, that still would do justice to the completeness of our salvation. We can take 1 John 1:9, not as a reference to salvation (as you said, that is complete at the cross), but as a reference to an ongoing confession of individual acts of sin that we commit as a believer. This would not mean that we are being re-saved each time we fail, but simply that we are taking our sins to God and asking Him to forgive and purify us from all acts of unrighteousness. This would fit well with the context of 1 John 2 as well. There John says, "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One." (1 Jn. 2:1) I appreciate your thoughts my brother! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||