Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Such thing as a choice? | Eccl 6:10 | Morant61 | 153088 | ||
Greetings Doc! Let's look at 1 Sam. 15:29: "He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind." The Hebrew word for 'change' is 'nacham'. This word is used in the following verses for times when God did change His mind. 1) Gen. 6:4 - "And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." 2) Gen. 6:7 - "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." 3) Ex. 32:12 - "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." 4) Deut. 32:36 - "For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left." 5) Judges 2:18 - "And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them." 6) 1 Sam. 15:11 - "It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night." 7) 1 Sam. 15:35 - "And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel." 8) 2 Sam. 24:16 - "And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite." 9) 1 Chron. 21:14 - "And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite." There are more, but these should suffice. What I meant by "my intention should be obvious" is that these verses exist in Scripture and must be dealt with in some manner. Whatever the councils have said, Scripture says that God does change His mind. :-) But, there are also several that say He doesn't. So, how do we harmonize these two different statements. My approach is simple. In every case where is says that God will not repent, the statement is connected with lying. I see the phrase as simply meaning that God will not break His promises. However, allowing someone to repent and avoid punishment is not breaking a promise. God is the offended One. He has every right to withhold judgement and extend mercy. However, these verses I have cited also clearly show that God has changed His plans at times. I can't 'add' an implied condition where none is stated in the case of Nineveh. Nineveh's king 'hoped' that God might be merciful and Jonah 'feared' that God would be merciful, but there was no hint of this in the message of God. He clearly stated that He would destroy them in 40 days, but then He didn't. Anyway, I was just curious as to how you reconciled these verses with your statement. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Such thing as a choice? | Eccl 6:10 | DocTrinsograce | 153089 | ||
Dear Brother Tim, It appears, if I understand correctly, you are basing your belief in God's ability to change His mind on the frequent uses of the word repent as an action attributed to God. John MacArthur can answer this much more eloquently than I can. I will attach his response to this very question. In Him, Doc Question: There are several places in Scripture where it says, "It repenteth God that He made man"; "It repenteth Him that He made Saul king"; and if I could squeeze in another one that's related to Saul, God sent, on several occasions, an evil spirit to Saul. Can you comment on all that? Answer: Sure. That's what we call anthropomorphisms. The reason I use that word is not to give you a long word, but to give you a word to explain. Anthropomorphism is two Greek words, "anthropos morphae." "Anthropos" is the word for man: anthropology. "Morphae" is the word for body; you talk about an endomorph, an ectomorph, a mesomorph -- different shapes of the human body. So, anthropomorphic means that you refer to God in terms of a man’s body or a human body. It is simply a device by which to say something about God, who is otherwise indescribable and inexplicable. For example, in the Scripture it says, "The arm of the Lord is not shortened and it cannot heal." Does God have an arm? No. It says, "The eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth." Does God have eyes? No. He is spirit, "The Spirit has not flesh and bones." It talks about His feet, it talks about even His appearance, as if He were a man. Sometimes it talks about God as if He were a bird. It talks about the "everlasting wings" and He "covers you with His feathers." God is not a man, God is not a chicken, God is not an eagle, God is not a pigeon, God is not a bird, but in order for us to comprehend in our minds something true about God which is otherwise indescribable to us, the Bible writer chooses to speak to us in terms which we understand. So, very often when you read in the Scripture, for example, that "It repenteth God that He made man," all that is saying to us is that from our vantage point, we understand that that means, God felt bad, so bad about the condition that if He were a man, He would say to Himself, "I wish I’d never made them." But obviously that is not "ipso facto," how God feels, because if that’s how God felt, He’d know He’d feel that way because He knows everything, and if that’s how He really felt He never would have made them in the first place. So, you're simply dealing with an anthropomorphic concept. We, from our viewpoint, will understand when God says, "I’m sorry I ever made them"; we understand that emotional expression because what that means is they are a major disappointment to Me. And so we don’t want to make more of that. Now, in the case of Saul, God permitted an evil spirit into Saul’s situation, but that shouldn’t surprise us. God permits the devil and evil spirits all the time. Remember our discussion of that not long ago? How that, in the case of Job, Satan goes to God and says, "Let me after Job and I'll destroy his faith," and God says, "Have at him"; Satan goes to the Lord and says, "Let me get after Peter and I'll sift him like wheat," and the Lord says, "Have at him"; and Satan goes to God and says, "Give me Paul and I'll tear him up," and Paul starts to be hindered and hindered and hindered by Satan? Sure. God will, for His own eternal purposes and His own glory and the advancement of His kingdom, permit those evil spirits, including Satan himself, to function within the framework of God’s confining sovereignty. |
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3 | Such thing as a choice? | Eccl 6:10 | Morant61 | 153102 | ||
Greetings Doc! I knew it would come to that eventually! ;-) It is curious that when the word is used to describe what God doesn't do, it means what it says. However, when it is used to describe what God does do, it must not really mean what it says. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Such thing as a choice? | Eccl 6:10 | DocTrinsograce | 153105 | ||
Dear Tim, I apologize, but the word says what it says and it is harmonizable in orthodox circles without altering the attributes of God. So you must necessarily affirm that these other anthropormorphic statements that have been identified should be treated as literal. You must also believe that the Ninevites really didn't know the difference between their left and right hands as stated in Jonah 4:11? By the way, I haven't been able to find a single Bible scholar that agrees with your interpretation. Do you carry it alone, or can you produce a quote from at least one other authority who might know better than the likes of us? In Him, Doc |
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5 | Such thing as a choice? | Eccl 6:10 | Morant61 | 153113 | ||
Greetings Doc! Why would I have to produce a commentator to tell me that all of the verses I quoted for you say that God repented? ;-) All the quotes do is confirm what they want the verses to say, not what they actually say. Regarding Jonah 4:11, I do believe that there were 120,000 people who couldn't tell their left hand from their right. God said it. :-) By the way, the verse never said anything about 'all' Ninevites. It limited it to a specific number. Well, I have to get ready for church my friend. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Such thing as a choice? | Eccl 6:10 | DocTrinsograce | 153117 | ||
Ah. I rather thought so. | ||||||