Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | When do we become sinners? | Ps 51:5 | mattone | 12407 | ||
Hey Nolan, I was so pleased to get your note, thank you. And yes, I do agree many of these types of discussions laspe into arguments that stray far from the questions or text at hand. As to James 4:17, wouldn't one's realization of right from wrong result from the Spirit's indwelling, thus the quickening of their spirit? Or to use the words of Jesus, they now have eyes to see, and ears to hear (see Matthew 13). Doesn't Paul say in Romans 8:7-8 that the person who is in the flesh (unsaved) is not even able to please God? In Christ our King, Peace. --JCP |
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2 | When do we become sinners? | Ps 51:5 | Makarios | 12412 | ||
Blessings JCP, I agree with you that one who is in the flesh (unsaved) cannot even please God (Romans 8:7-8). And we all start out this way. However, we come to know the difference between right from wrong not initially by the Spirit's presence, but by knowledge of the Law (Romans 3:20). And sin is not understood or applicable until one can gain a grasp (or develop to the point) of the Law and its demands on conduct and consequences to certain behavior, etc. (Romans 5:13; 7:7-9). However, when a person is called or acts upon their volition to choose God and is saved as a result, then they are free from this Law because of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:2). And yes, the person now has 'eyes to see and ears to hear' (Matthew 13). Grace to you and peace! --Nolan |
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3 | When do we become sinners? | Ps 51:5 | mattone | 12554 | ||
Hey Nolan, let me backup and approach this another way, because we are beginning to confuse issues. Your belief, being from an Arminian perspective, teaches that Christ died for all humans. That humans possess free will, the ability to accept or reject God's offer of Grace, and that election is based totally on God's foreknowledge into the future of those who will accept that gift. Therefore, only those persons who exercise their "free will", by rejecting death and accepting life are saved. So Christ's death only created the possibility of salvation for anyone, that is, anyone who exercises his or her "will" for life. So God does not unconditionally elect anyone to salvation without that person's exercising of their consent to His gift of eternal life. Then we come to the idea of infants and/or incapables, those who as you put it, have not reached an age of accountability, or a state of culpability for their sin nature, thus their inevitable sins. So if they die in that state, you are pronouncing them saved because God now unconditionally elects them to that state of grace, since they can not do it themselves. Or, I guess there is of course the possibility in your system, that God MUST save these infants and incapables because they are without blemish. For God punishes us for our sins. Have you seriously thought about this? Nolan, in all of this, where does Paul's statement in Ephesians 2:8-10 come in? Or what about your own agreement with me on the point that, "anyone in the flesh cannot please God, and we all start out that way". This of course being without doubt a biblical perspective. Nolan, if you believe that God elects infants unconditionally, then you're a Calvinist, which then creates problems with the rest of your system, and if you believe he must save infants because they are sinless, then you really don't agree that we all start out that way, dead in our sins and trespasses unable to even please God. And of course, this would put you in the position of disagreeing with Scripture, which you've already said that you do agree with it. By the way, and you've never asked me, you just started disagreeing with me in pricipal, but I to believe that infants and incapables are saved. Can you guess how? Nolan, I want you to think about one more thing, why did God save Ninevah, 120,000 persons who also did not know their right hand from their left. But in Deuteronomy 20:13-18 we find a different situation, and I quote verse 16, "Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes". Just some food for thought. I pray the Lord is blessing you and yours..., for in Him we live, move, and have our existence--JCP |
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4 | When do we become sinners? | Ps 51:5 | Makarios | 12600 | ||
Dear JCP, I believe that we have not confused issues (at least I have not), and I see that you are getting completely and clearly off the subject of the original question with your reply. The Forum well knows my stance on the issue of election and free will, and if you'd like to delve into that discussion any further than this point, then I suggest that you check the Forum archives. I will not be "baited" or led any futher into this discussion with you, and I hope that I have explained myself well. Thank you! --Nolan |
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5 | When do we become sinners? | Ps 51:5 | mattone | 12611 | ||
Hey Nolan, I'm sorry you feel baited, that was not my intention. My friend in Christ, it is you who have gotten off of the original subject. Which was, When do we become sinners, and the interpretation of Psalms 51:5-6. But, I understand if you don't want to answer my questions, questions that were clearly directed at YOUR arguments on the state of Infants and Incapables in death, and the so-called "age of accountability". Obviously I've hit a sore spot, I apologize. Have a great day and a blessed weekend. --JCP |
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6 | When do we become sinners? | Ps 51:5 | Makarios | 12612 | ||
Hey there JCP, You didn't hit a 'sore spot' with me, my friend, so you can relieve yourself of the burden of me possibly "holding a grudge".. :) It is obvious that we disagree. In my interpretation, we can go no further unless we deal with the "deeper issues" first (what I am trying to avoid). In your interpretation, you believe that crossing into a part of that "deeper" issue would help explain your viewpoint better. However, I feel that we have 'crossed the line' here, and the way that I received your 'questions' to my reply was as another way to attack Arminianism rather than answering what I have stated about the "Age of Accountability." I have pretty much said all that could be stated about my stance on that subject here. Thank you and you also have a great day and blessed weekend. --Nolan |
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7 | When do we become sinners? | Ps 51:5 | mattone | 12834 | ||
Nolan, we are nowhere near a deeper issue!!! These arguments are referred to in most circles as BASIC Christianity. Anyone can understand that it is God who saves and not us who save ourselves. Again Basic Christianity. For example: For by grace you have been saved, not of works, lest any man boast. For it does not depend on the man who wills, or runs, but on God who has mercy on whom He will have mercy. It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. Nolan, "go and learn what this means, I desire compassion and not sacrifice, for I did not come to call the righteous, BUT SINNERS (emphasis and paraphrasing is mine). None come unto the Father unless I first call them. For I am confident that HE WHO BEGAN A GOOD WORK IN You will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ. Nolan, it is you and Tim who opened this can of worms about infants and the age of accountability. Every reply I've given you is towards that discussion. My last reply was repeating your belief, using your words, are you ashamed of them? Nolan, we both believe God saves infants, I'm asking you to defend yours with Scripture. I believe you can, as I alluded to in my earlier reply. But where in scripture is there state of moral neutrality for anyone? And if there is not one, then again, it is that God chooses whom he will have mercy on! Nolan, if this next reply is like your last one, then I must say good bye to this subject and move on. But let me say that you are forever my brother in Christ, for it is he that will keep us from harms way! --JCP |
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8 | When do we become sinners? | Ps 51:5 | Makarios | 12844 | ||
Greetings mattone (JCP), Yes, I am aware of you and I know that you think along the lines of Calvinism.. It has been revealed that I think differently than you do. I have said once before that I will not be goaded into an argument with you. In a Forum so diverse with myriad topics, isn't there anything else that you would like to talk about, my friend? By all means, have the last word on this thread, my friend, and reply to this post! Your Brother in Christ, Nolan |
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