Results 1 - 11 of 11
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | DocTrinsograce | 158236 | ||
You wrote, "Why would he do such a thing if he already knew the results?" Are you suggesting that God didn't know the results? As to the rest of your post, you need to better define your terms. In Him, Doc b "If any man doth ascribe of salvation, even the very least, to the free will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright." --Martin Luther "To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." --John Owen "Man is nothing: he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and to do His good pleasure." --George Whitefield "I do not come into this pulpit hoping that perhaps somebody will of his own free will return to Christ. My hope lies in another quarter. I hope that my Master will lay hold of some of them and say, 'You are mine, and you shall be mine. I claim you for myself.' My hope arises from the freeness of grace, and not from the freedom of the will." --Charles Hadon Spurgeon "If the final decision for the salvation of fallen sinners were left in the hands of fallen sinners, we would despair all hope that anyone would be saved" --R.C. Sproul |
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2 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | MicahPorter | 158436 | ||
No I would never suggest that God did not know the results. I’m merely trying to get us to view the reality of the situation. All I’m trying to say is that without choice, you cannot have love. But when given full choice, we also have the ability to choose to do evil. All throughout the bible you read of God giving man choices that are in his control. Adam and Eve were told not to eat from the tree of life; Moses created the law (under Gods guidance). And any evil that has been created was under the direct choice of man. And we became slaves under our own pride that WE created. In the end God created a way out, Jesus Christ. But God does not change, we were given choice to ether accept him or reject him. But those quotes were correct; alone we cannot make the choice of Grace. As seen in history of human behavior, humans seem to reject the things of God. It’s only by his grace that we can have the ability to choose him, but were still left with the choice. Now do we really have choice or does God have full influence over us? I believe it’s both, though I do admit I cannot understand fully how. It’s true that an finite being cannot understand the complexities of an infinite being and his thoughts. But I’m getting a bit off topic here. All I can simply do is ask you this question, is it possible to create true free will and somehow exclude evil? The concepts counteract each other. Without choice, we cannot choose love and therefore cannot bring glory to God. |
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3 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | DocTrinsograce | 158454 | ||
Dear Micah, Your presupposition of the "free will" of man predisposes you to seeing "throughout the bible ... God giving man choices." What I see all throughout the bible is man's inability and God's redemptive power. If man has the kind of free will of which you speak, why then are we described as dead (Eph 2:1, 5; Col 2:13; 1 Peter 2:24), slaves (John 8:44; Romans 6:20; Eph 2:2; 2 Tim 2:26), blind (Mat 23:26; 2 Cor 3:14). In your eisegesis you would make man sick, not dead; employees, not slaves; myopic, not blind. Not only is this a repudiation of the Word of God, it demeans the work of God in redemption! If a man is ignorant, all he need do is call for a teacher. When he is educated, he receives the glory along with the teacher for his efforts to learn. If a man is sick, all he need do is call for a doctor. When he is well, he receives the glory along with the doctor for having had the wisdom to seek healing. When a man is dead, he can do nothing. He cannot call out for help. He cannot choose. The teacher and the doctor are equally useful to the corpse. Man's condition without Christ is like the dead man: it is utterly desperate and utterly beyond hope. Dead men are unable to hear or act. Dead men are unable to choose. Think of the narrative in John 11 where Jesus goes to the grave of Lazarus. When Christ calls Lazarus forth, it was not simply a matter of Lazarus hearing the call of God and choosing to respond! Think about what needed to take place. First, the Spirit of God had to restore life to the stinking corpse. That, in itself, was incredible, something that only God could do. Second, the Spirit of God had to heal the disease that killed the man in the first place. Before doing these things, Lazarus could not have heard the voice of Christ, let alone responded to it. Only after these things Lazarus is able to hear the command. Only then does he have the power to rise up and leave the tomb. Son, one day the Lord Jesus will divide the sheep from the goats (Mat 25:32-33). He will divide the tares from the wheat (Mat 13:30). Goats cannot become sheep by sheer force of will. Tares cannot become wheat by sheer force of will. Only God can make sheep. Only God can make wheat. Left to our own devices, no one would choose God. The ability to choose was lost in the fall. God must do His redemptive work to restore a man before he can choose. Regeneration always precedes faith. Yes, the Bible is full of the love of God. But God does not share His glory with anyone. Redemption, start to finish, is a work of God alone, through Christ alone. The only thing we contribute to the process is our sin. God chooses, calls, regenerates, gives faith, justifies through double imputation, adopts, sanctifies, and will eventually glorify. He is the Alpha and Omega. He does it all. He does not leave our salvation to chance or the vagaries of the fickle human heart. He never begged Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Peter, Paul, etc. etc. Yes, He loves us that much! You ask, "is it possible to create true free will and somehow exclude evil?" The old divines answered things so much better than I can. They wrote, "God hath decreed in Himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree. (Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5)" (1689 LBCF, chapter 3, paragraph 1) That answer is succinct and complete, but it might take some study to fully understand it. If you desire truth, you will seek to understand it before you decide if it is correct. If not, you will dismiss it out of hand. You wrote, "Without choice, we cannot choose love and therefore cannot bring glory to God." God brings glory to Himself by redeeming His elect, and passing over the rest of humanity. As believers we show our love of the Lord by cooperating with Him in obedience and submission. However, that is only possible because of regeneration. In Him, Doc PS For those of you who are interested in theological terms, what this young man is talking about is called "decisional regeneration." It is a common component associated with a belief system called "synergism," which is rooted, historically, in Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism. These theological perspectives stand in opposition to Pauline, Augustinian, and Lutheran theology, which is broadly known as "monergism." |
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4 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | kalos | 158465 | ||
Doc: Isn't it amazing when people finally see that from start to finish SALVATION IS OF THE LORD? You write: "Redemption, start to finish, is a work of God alone, through Christ alone." Doc, this truth is so fundamental to an understanding of the gospel message. Yet it is one that has to be proclaimed over and over and over again. When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn? Grace to you, Kalos |
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5 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | DocTrinsograce | 158467 | ||
Dear Brother Kalos, This weekend I had the honor of attending a conference in which R C Sproul was a speaker. A questioner asked, "Doesn't Romans 9:11 put an end to the Armininian debate?" Sproul promptly answered, "No, it doesn't." He smiled and leaning forward and said, "Now, if you ask me if it SHOULD put an end to the debate, I'd give you a different answer! The insistence of men that they have veto power lies deeply imbedded in their sinful hearts." Thank you for your comments, brother. In Him, Doc |
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6 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | Morant61 | 158472 | ||
Greetings Doc! That is a cheap shot on the part of Dr. Sproul. :-( Those who hold a differing view from him do so because of a different understanding of the relevant Scriptures and doctrines. While he may not agree, to attribute the differences to sin is unjustified. The other side could claim the same thing, but it doesn't make it true. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | DocTrinsograce | 158474 | ||
Dear Brother Tim, All error is rooted in sin. Only a relativist would say that all of us are right. A traditional Arminian is not -- typically -- a relativist, so I'm confident they would, indeed, make the same claim. :-) Regardless, the argument that both "sides" could make the same claim fails to lend credence to the notion that the theologies are equally supported by a sound hermeneutic of the Word of God. In Him, Doc |
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8 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | Morant61 | 158475 | ||
Greetings Doc! I understand that both sides cannot be right! :-) But, I would not be so rude as to attribute your error to sin! ;-) The debate should be based upon Scripture, not upon 'claims' about why someone believes the way that they do. I do not believe the way that I do because of 'sin', but because of my understanding of Scripture. Even if you do not agree, you should at least allow that an Arminian can be intellectually and Scripturally honest in his beliefs. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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9 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | DocTrinsograce | 158477 | ||
Dear Brother Tim, You wrote, "I understand that both sides cannot be right!" That's an encouragement. If we lose logic, we pretty much lose everything else. :-) You wrote, "I would not be so rude as to attribute your error to sin!" Then you have a much more elevated view of error than do I. If it eases the social requirements of cordiality any, does it help if I admit that my own error is due to sin? 1 Corinthians 13:12 assures me that in glory I will not know everything, but the effect of sin on my understanding will be eliminated. [You know, it would be interesting to discuss this question of cordiality some time. Even the apostles wrote some pretty rude things about named individuals!] You wrote, "The debate should be based upon Scripture, not upon 'claims' about why someone believes the way that they do." I thought that is what I said in response to your original post? You wrote, "Even if you do not agree, you should at least allow that an Arminian can be intellectually and Scripturally honest in his beliefs." Dear brother Tim, you bring up two very different things! I do, indeed, allow that you, and perhaps others, can be intellectually and Scripturally "honest in your beliefs." However, I also allow that human beings often believe what they believe for moral rather than logical or Scriptural reasons. It occurs to me that you must mistakenly think that when we say something like "all error is rooted in sin," that we mean "you have sin in your life so you are cursed with error." That is not what is meant. Let me see if I can rephrase: Human thinking has been adversely effected by the fall. In addition, the fall has adversely effected the capacity for human intellectual attainment. Furthermore, the human heart is desperately wicked. Scripture tells us that many choices in belief do not stem from logic or observation, but are rooted in morality (Romans 1 explains this very well). Consequently, dear friend, do not feel personally put upon! The statements were not directed to you personally, but to the consequences of sin in general. In Him, Doc |
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10 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | Morant61 | 158478 | ||
Greetings Doc! You wrote: "I do, indeed, allow that you, and perhaps others, can be intellectually and Scripturally "honest in your beliefs." However, I also allow that human beings often believe what they believe for moral rather than logical or Scriptural reasons." Fair enough, but that was not what your original quote from Dr. Sproul said. :-) I was simply concerned that we are not permitted to discuss the issues, but we can post quotes that demean the other side without the opportunity for defense. ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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11 | god create evil | Gen 1:31 | Hank | 158480 | ||
Greetings, Brother Tim! You wrote: "I was simply concerned that we are not permitted to discuss the issues, but we can post quotes that demean the other side without opportunity for defense." ..... Tim, I most assuredly share your concern! To engage in posting a string of quotes by known Calvinists (or Arminians, for that matter) for the sake of making a point for either side, whether Calvinism or Arminianism, without allowing for the viewpoints of the other, is not, to my mind, a fair and balanced treatment of the issue on this Forum and is, in fact, tantamount to the promotion of denominational bias. ...... I am in no way trying to start a religious debate or war, but I am asking that this practice cease before one breaks out! --Hank | ||||||