Subject: I liked most of what... |
Bible Note: Debbie: Because of my appreciation of and respect for you, I feel I owe you the courtesy of a full reply to your previous posting. It surely is your place to respond to me or anyone else on this Forum. Everyone is equal here and I welcome your reply. First I need to clarify something. Do I believe that God's presence sometimes overwhelms people and sort of saps their physical strength? I must believe that. First, because there is scriptural precedent for it. Second, because I have experienced it myself. And in two major experiences I remember, I had not psyched myself up for any kind of experience. In these two experiences, there was no preacher who advertised that God would slay everyone in the Spirit on the schedule that the preacher had set for the Holy Spirit. In fact, both times occurred BEFORE "slain in the spirit" was ever heard of and before it became popular. And my point is: yes, God can and will do what He wants to. He can and does overwhelm individuals with His presence. But where outward manifestations such as slain in the Spirit are concerned, God never has to do the same thing in the same way twice. "Slain in the Spirit" is not something God does on some man's schedule. It is not anything He does in assembly line or cookie cutter fashion. What I don't believe is that a man can line up everybody in the building night after night on the assumption that "OK, folks, now God is going to do the exact same thing to everybody here at the laying on of my hands." That is what I find no Biblical precedent for. "Slain in the Spirit" is not one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I hope I make myself clear. God can do it, but He doesn't do it on an assembly line basis by the laying on of hands. The two times I was overwhelmed by God's presence (for lack of a better phrase) it had nothing to do with any man. God and God alone did it without the aid of "catchers." If the slayee believes they had a genuine experience from the Lord, that's one thing. But does anyone think God does something to people that results in their spiritual, emotional, or physical harm? May it never be! And I didn't mean that if anyone believes in assembly line slaying in the Spirit that they believe a fairy tale. What I meant, and perhaps did not make clear, is that if one takes facts supported by evidence and denies the facts, he is no different from someone who believes in fairy tales. Believing something is true is one thing. But being presented with truth supported by facts and then choosing not to believe it is what I find objectionable. It has nothing whatever to do with faith or righteousness or anything else. Christianity is not a blind leap of faith. The inspiration and infallibility of the Bible can be backed up with evidence. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is a historical fact supported by an abundance of historical evidence. I agree with you: when we disagree over secondary matters (I didn't say trivial or unimportant), we are still members of the body of Christ and we ought to respect and care for each other. Again I agree with you: This forum is not just for one religious view. This forum is based on the Word of God and upon the essentials of the Christian faith, i.e. basic Bible doctrine. Agreement on every last detail is neither required nor humanly possible. :-) Lastly, I will say again what I've already said dozens of times on this forum. I will be the first to proclaim that no man, no Study Bible, no church, no ministry, no "expert", etc. is infallible. Only the Word of God in the original manuscripts is without error. So I never have held up Hank Hanegraaff or John MacArthur or anyone else as infallible. The issue here is not about Hanegraaff. If it makes you feel any better, most of my relatives and most of the people in my church do not like Hanegraaff. He has the inconvenient habit of not going along with their pet beliefs. On the other hand, many pastors in my denomination fully support Hanegraaff. But again, Hanegraaff is not the real issue here. Debbie, I hope I have not needlessly offended you or anyone else. It is my desire to present my understanding of the Scriptures in a clear, biblically supported manner. But it is never my desire to do so in a caustic or hurtful manner. Wherever I may have been rude or harsh, I sincerely apologize. As the Bible says, we ought to be "speaking the truth in love," not in arrogance or in condemnation of others. Thank you again, Debbie, for your reply. I have followed your postings ever since you've been with the Forum. I look forward to reading your future postings. Grace to you, --JVH0212 "In essentials unity, in nonessentials liberty, and in all things charity." |