Bible Question:
Tim, thanks for your response. These verses still have me stumped but I have to admit that the limitation is on my part. In fact, I may never get answer to them this side of heaven. One of the problems for me as a lay person is that, in some difficult passages, the underlying Greek just confuses the issue, not because Greek is a problem but because translation is not an EXACT science. Translator try, I believe, to find the closest receptor language word that means the same as the original donor language. Obviously, that is why SO many different translations exist today. And the matter becomes even worse if the translators have a particular theological bent. Where this causes a problem for me is in the area of doctrinal purity. I can find, right now, about 20 verses that say our salvation is a done deal and that we can never lose it. But, along with the ones you've posted here, I can find about 3 others that seem to imply that salvation can be walked away from, lost, not made sure, etc. It's the same with water baptism. I can find plenty of verses that say the water baptism is not part of salvation as we know it. But then there is that one or two that imply that it might be. So, as a layman, how do we reconcile these pieces of the puzzle so that they all fit? Can we? Should we? I don't know. Because I, in myself, can't, I encourage others to be Bereans and check out what I say for themselves or to come along side me and help dig for the answer. That is where I think this forum can be a wonderful tool. Unfortunately, there are not many people in my local church that I can take certain questions to. We have many retired pastors there but my honest questions are usually looked upon as 'doubter's syndrome.' That is hardly the case. But I do want to be ready to give every person reasons for my faith. I believe that my faith is based on facts, not just 'pie-in-the-sky' beliefs. And I believe our faith can withstand 'serious' questions as long as we avoid fast food issues. So what do we do when we don't have all the answers? I find that I have to keep pointing my fellow brothers and sisters back to Jesus. Not as a copout but because that is where truth is found. God knows everything. Unfortunately, He has not told us everything He knows. Our little brains would explode. But I do believe that Jesus is full of both grace and truth. And if we need either one (when don't we?), He is where we need to turn. He said we would know the truth and that the truth is what sets us free from error. I believe that. But I find, in my journey, that the WHEN of knowing the truth is a process. So, what do we do when we can't find the answers? Or what do we do if our respective answers disagree? What if we can't make all the pieces of the puzzle fit? Just curious, thanks for your graceful spirit. I see Christ in you. In Him, Bill Mc |
Bible Answer: Greetings Bill! Thanks for you response my friend! I fully understand where you are coming from! :-) All I ever ask of anyone, including myself, is to at least deal with the text. This doesn't mean that we will always understand every text or that brothers will always agree with each other. But, dealing with the hard texts allows us the opportunity to sharpen our understanding of our theology. I know I learn a lot, even in discussions with those with whom I don't agree. Obviously, I come at this issue from a certain perspective. But, the way that I harmonize the verses that you refer to is this: 1) Our salvation is secure. Nothing or no one can take it from us. It is not earned by us. It is not deserved by us. It is a free gift of God. 2) However, a gift can be rejected and there are many verses which indicate that salvation includes an ongoing "abiding" in Him. 3) Therefore, we can never "lose" our salvation. But, we can willfully trample His blood under our feet and reject the precious gift He has given us. From my perspective, this does justice to both set of verses. I have appreciated our discussion very much. It has been an excellent example of how people can discuss or debate complex issues in a loving and polite way. I look forward to interacting with you more in the future my friend. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |