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NASB | 2 John 1:7 ¶ For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | 2 John 1:7 ¶ For many deceivers [heretics, posing as Christians] have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge and confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh (bodily form). This [person, the kind who does this] is the deceiver and the antichrist [that is, the antagonist of Christ]. |
Subject: Does Islam fit here? |
Bible Note: Doc you said, “Ecumenism that teaches the worship of unity even at the cost of truth. That would put us back under the authority of priests and popes, with no apology or consideration of the hundreds of thousands who were killed and tortured for trying to put Bibles in the hands of common people.” All the battles you mention had nothing to do with getting the Bible into anyone’s hand. Also the numbers are greatly inflated. During this period an army was considered a great success if it could muster more than a couple thousand men. Almost every scholar of History refutes the highly inflated numbers claimed killed in the inquisitions. I heard a recent discussion on this issue and the man addressing the symposium (I can't recall his name) I'm told is highly respected expert. Told of his research and discovery of the record of names sent back to Rome of victims of the inquisitions the number while I can’t recall the exact number was under a thousand. The numbers supposedly killed in the Inquisition are just the like the Salem witch hunts numbers. People (fiction writers and Hollywood) have this number at totally unrealistic levels, I have heard that hundreds died in Salem, however documentation proves the numbers to be in twenties and possibly lower. I never once said Rome’s treatment of Protestants was benign. That sir is exactly what you accused me of, putting words into your mouth. I explained your charge of me doing this was based on me making an assumption and I apologized for that. I can see nothing anywhere in my post to you which can even remotely lead you to this assumption in what I said. Yes I have read Fox’s book of Martyr’s many times. I don’t think that is the issue here. The issue is the Catholic church while reluctant to just let anyone translate the Bible was not actively involved in preventing or discouraging lay people from Bible study. While Rome had many faults and certainly needed reformation this false charge should not be laid its feet. Your also right the Catholic Church does teach in areas of the Bible that a clear understanding can not be reached that the church’s explanation should be accepted. I see this as being about the same as any denomination doctrinal statement, Statement of beliefs or the issuing position papers refuting something that may be effecting the church today. Personally I find most bickering between denominations abhorrent to Christianity and believe that perhaps there should be one deciding body to provide one clear position rather than having 3000 and trying to ignore the hypocrisy of it all. Let us stop this before it goes any further down hill. If you or anyone else wants to believe the Catholic church oppresses it’s people to keep them from reading or studying the Bible. I say go for it! Burn the Pope! For those that agree with me that the Reformation started out as religious reform and ended as political power struggles I say great. Are you going to convince me? Absolutely not! Am I going to convince you? Most probably not! That said I would say that should you or anyone make a post that I consider not being true I will offer a post to refute your position. I hope you do the same for me. EdB |