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NASB | 1 Timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | 1 Timothy 2:4 who wishes all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge and recognition of the [divine] truth. |
Subject: My Final Answer! :-) |
Bible Note: "Some have contended that all of the references which refer to 'all' men really mean only 'some' men." And some have contended that this is a less-than-honest oversimplification of the argument. "My contention is that there is not a single verse which says that Christ did not die for all men, or that He only died for some men." There is not a single verse which (in isolation) speaks of the Tri-unity of God, either. That doesn't mean that Scripture doesn't teach it. 'As my last post, I will simply list many of these verses and ask, "Do these really mean only some people?"' And, as both of us know, we agree completely on the meaning of many of the verses you put forward (e.g. John 3:15, Acts 2:21, Romans 1:16-17, Romans 10:13, etc.). Why list those as proof of Arminianism when we have identical understandings of such verses? If each and every human being has been drawn by the lifting up of Jesus Christ, then we have a real problem explaining how those who have never even heard of Christ are drawn. Paul writes in Romans 10: 'for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent?...So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." Paul makes it clear that the agency of human beings proclaiming the gospel is the means by which people believe. And, to use a familiar argument, there is not one verse in Scripture which speaks of the possibility of anyone becoming a Christian without having the gospel preached to them. So how are these men drawn? A single verse in Romans 11 has been employed to support the argument that God shows mercy to each and every human being, but unless Paul has multiple personalities, he in no uncertain terms closes that door a few paragraphs previously in Romans 9:18 ff. While Romans 9 is certainly not the only place we see our sovereign Lord withholding mercy from some and extending it to others, it is by far the clearest and most straightforward exposition on God's showing mercy to some (preparing them for glory) and hardening others (preparing them for destruction). Nowhere in the discourse of God's purpose in election is man active in the process, nor is the decision made during the lifetime of the "vessels." The familiar passages of John 6, supporting a particular redemption, have been raised, and not addressed in a way that is consistent with the text and fits into an Arminian framework. If a one wants a single verse pointing to the work of Christ on behalf of a limited group of individuals, we have a whole passage in John 6. This forum has seen this argument crop up more often than even some of its regular participants have cared to see it. I tend to steer clear of it unless my position is extremely misrepresented by its claimed adherents or its proponents. The "'all'-means-'some'" abbreviation of the Calvinist viewpoint is simply misleading, and I had hoped that pointing it out before would have resulted in a little less "spin." I see that's not going to be the case, however, so I will let this be my "final word" (for now ;)). --Joe! |