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NASB | Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace [God's remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God; |
Subject: is water-baptism needed for salvation? |
Bible Note: Beja Do you remember my first post on this subject? "Excuse me but haven't these opinions everyone is voicing been argued for over 500 years don't they all come down to each one's own doctrinal beliefs?" You then made mention of "a divisive search for truth" that's sort of an oxymoron isn't it? Although I can agree to a certain extent there can be a divisive search for truth but only if the persons involved are starting from the same point of view. "unless two be agreed how can they walk together." Or with the same objective in view such as the clarifying of a scripture for better understanding of their mutually held doctrine. But if they are coming from diametrically opposed points of view it becomes what I have said where both parties come to the table with the truth in their possession with the viewpoint that the other doctrine is categorically wrong. So you see it isn't a search for truth as much as it is an espousing of the truth one already professes. Taking into account the discussion the four of us have had my original post was correct. There have been three that agree on a single doctrine "saved by grace through faith" and the discussion that has ensued has only been to show the forth as being categorically wrong. That is by definition "already possessing the truth". There have been no exchange of ideas or even a mutual investigarion into the others beliefs in a search for truth there has only been one in depth viewpoint expressed thus far where all the other posts have been nothing but an overwhelming condemnation of said belief. In order for this Utopian discussion to take place there has to be a mutual questioning of each of the opposing beliefs a willingness on both sides to say "I was wrong". But as you know the difficulty with this is that all beliefs are interlocked making it neigh unto impossible to lay down just one belief without destroying the integrity of the whole belief structure. But without a true openness there cannot be a search for truth between two opposing sides on a question. In illustration - - A person comes to Christ being without any belief structure he starts attending a church where he is indoctrinated into the belief "a person can lose their salvation" from that point on everything that he reads will reinforce that belief permeating everything he believes thereby building a belief structure where everything is interdependent on everything else. Knowing that "we cannot lose our salvation" how can we ever hope to show him his error we would have to tear down his whole house. Don't you think he thinks he is already following the truth and you are wrong? My point is you can't search for something if you already know where it is can you? To show you there are no hard feelings I do fully agree with at least one of your statements:-) "lets just let people preach baptismal regeneration." Have yourself a good Lords day Godinus |