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NASB | Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace [God's remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God; |
Subject: ehesians2vs8 |
Bible Note: C.S.M., Forgive me, for my curiosity got the better of me and I did finish reading your post. Before I depart from this discussion, I feel I must address some of your unfair claims against me. I really don’t know what you are debating. My disagreement as stated in my post was this: From post # 157108 You said: “I say Jesus is the source, the developer, and the finisher of mankinds faith. He doesn't just have faith, he is faith, the source of all faith from God the Father.” I said: “Jesus Christ cannot be faith. Paul points out that faith is temporal. Christ is eternal. How can one be the other? Faith is clearly a spiritual gift as pointed out in 1 Corinthians 12:9.” You also stated that God is grace and Jesus is faith in another post that was not part of this thread, post #157084: you said: “God is grace, Jesus is Faith which produces peace.” Then in another post you stated that God’s word is His faith, as is God requires faith, post #157074 you said: “Since the just must live by faith, and Jesus said you live by every word of God. God's word is God's faith.” I debate all of these as being unsupported by God’s own word. Before I venture into answering you questions yet again, let’s look at what I disagree with. You claim Jesus is faith, God is grace and God’s word is God’s faith. Why would God need faith. God knows all. God’s own definition of faith is Hebrews 11:1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. So tell me what does God hope for? What is it that God cannot see? Why do you think God needs faith? Yes He is the source of our faith but he needs not faith. Like you have stated, God can call into existence anything He desires out of nothing. So why do you find it hard to believe that God can give us faith without Himself having it? Secondly, you claim Jesus is faith but have failed to provide the Scripture that supports that. Faith is a gift from God. As pointed out, gifts, with the exception of love, will not endure forever. We know Christ will endure forever. So how can Christ be faith? Again, sine faith is a gift, its source is God, but faith is established in Christ, Christ is not faith. God is grace? Grace is God’s free and unmerited favor toward sinful humanity. My definition is a paraphrase of this but is essentially the same. This definition can be found in any Bible Dictionary or concordance, yet you struggle with it as being factual, dismissing it as something I heard someone say. Yes, I heard God say it in His word. So again, point me to the Scripture that identifies God as being grace. God surely does give us His grace, but He is not grace. Now to address specifically your questions and statement in this post: You ask: “why do you reject God's clearly stated definition of grace in Eph 1:6 as his acceptance of believers in the beloved? You do agree he is talking about Christ Jesus, the beloved, don't you?” I believe my definition is accurate to that Scripture and yes He has given us grace because of His Son Jesus. I don’t deny that, but that does not define grace. You are surely mistaken if you think it does. It explains why God has given us His grace. Continued in next post… |