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NASB | John 6:49 "Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | John 6:49 "Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. |
Subject: O.T. Israel salvation? |
Bible Note: Dear Greg Martin, Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus! My point about Israel being 'baptized in the cloud and in the sea' were that they were saved out of Egypt, then 'cleansed' (baptized) by the water and the Spirit. Paul likens the Exodus, the cloud of the 'presence of God' and the miracle of the parting of the Red Sea to his (our) present-day salvation experience. If this can be interpreted as such, then ALL Israel was saved! But many (most, including Moses) were displeasing to God, and laid low (died) in the wilderness. Were they 'unsaved' as in 'never really saved' or did they lose their salvation? I, personally, think they were saved, but displeasing to God. Does this mean they went to hell? I don't think so. If they did, Moses would be included, wouldn't he? Yet I believe that Moses is saved. Now, if we accept that grace through faith was salvific in the Old Testament (like Abraham, though he made his own mistakes), then is this not similar to our present situation? Yet you seem to be saying that if a person claims salvation, but sins (doesn't have his heart right), then he was never saved to begin with. Is that right? Friend, I am well aware that there are abusers of grace, including some very well-know Biblical men. (interestingly, not too many unfaithful women! :-)) We of the present generation do not have a monopoly on sin or unfaithfulness. I have to ask, can a person have his heart right (enough) to get saved, but fall into a sinful lifestyle? Is he not still saved by grace? Or are we judged always by the 'state of our heart' immediately prior to death? I see this thread as leading to a situation that we are saved by grace through faith, but we are required to 'maintain' our faith through outward faithfulness. I cannot agree to this. The Bible tells me that God continues to love those who believed in Him, even if they fall into temptation or sin. Of course, God is well-pleased with those that are faithful to Him! And, He is displeased with those that are weak or unfaithful. But does He take back His grace? I don't think so. Blessings to you in Christ Jesus, charis |