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NASB | Matthew 6:9 ¶ "Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Matthew 6:9 ¶ "Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. [Luke 11:2-4] |
Subject: Are we to pray to the holy spirit? |
Bible Note: Hi Ray, Well, my (m)man thing was just showing that I disagree with you on your capitalization argument here. Where the title "man" is used to refer to Jesus there are two different functions involved. That of showing that Jesus was a man, and that of showing that Jesus was God. When we refer to His being a (m)man we are talking about that state of humility that He experienced in setting aside for a time His glorified Self in Heaven to become like you and me. When Jesus used the title man to refer to Himself as God, He used Son of Man which pointed toward His being God (capitalization is appropriate). We recognize and believe that Jesus the (m)man was also God. So, I just believe that to attempt to assign God status to the (m)man that Jesus became in order that He might experience temptation and physical death invalidates His whole purpose and need for becoming like us. Perhaps you have heard it taught that Jesus was "fully man" and "fully God". It was required of Him to be fully man, otherwise He could not have truly experienced temptation; though He sinned not. It would not have been so great a feat for Him if He had not become fully man; first, He could not have experienced temptation of sin (and therefore could not have been sufficient as a sacrifice being found blameless), so no biggy and no suffering, and second, He could not have died a physical death, again no suffering. If He could not have died a physical death, He could not have been raised again to life, physically, and death still would not be conquered. So we must honor Him for having humbled Himself in that He became a (m)man and died for you and me, by recognizing that He did so. We do this while recognizing that Jesus was and is fully God. Of course this at once becomes a mystery at this point and one that my (and your) human minds can not comprehend. I have followed your arguments regarding capitalization and respect your opinion though I disagree here. But, I hope that you do not teach or believe that Jesus was not in fact born an actual, physical human. On the other issue; Ray, I simply can't follow your argument here. You support your position with a verse that absolutely contradicts yourself and your position. You write: "I believe that Jesus was always Spirit, was always God, and is now "Spirit" Then you give as support: Luke 24:39 says, "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." Jesus, right there in your quoted verse says; "a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see THAT I HAVE. Jesus was saying, Hey, wake up guys, your not looking at a "SPIRIT" here, it's me, Jesus, in the flesh. Look at it again Ray, closely. You then contradict yourself again. You write: "A spirit or a ghost does not have flesh and bones like Jesus had, so He was not a ghost." Finish the thought. A SPIRIT OR A GHOST does not have flesh and bones LIKE JESUS HAD, so He was not a ghost (though finished- and He was not a spirit). Not to put words in your fingers Ray, this is only a logical conclusion. Finally Ray, you write: "So He had a resurrected body, one that could still eat food, yet one that went through doors, and could change appearances. Who knows or understands? But I know that He is a Spirit and we shall see Him as He is." Your right that Jesus' body after the resurrection was different. The bible teaches that it was a glorified body but a body none-the-less. Ours too will be changed, and made incorruptible at His glorious coming. We will SEE Him, actually and absolutely. In Luke 24:39 it was a physical body as you point out; He ate and the deciples were able to touch and feel Him. But you emphasis that He "went through doors." Well I go through doors several times a day. I assume that you are teaching what I have heard others teach; that being that he went through a closed door without opening it or similarly through a wall. Let me redirect this and argue that no where in scripture does it teach or say that Jesus walked through unopened doors or through walls, but instead "he stood among them." A more acurate interpretation would be that He "appeared" before them and how, again, this is a mystery that speaks to His glorified body, but a body it was and is. But the bible does not say that "He walked through doors." I don't fault you here though as it is an easy mistake to make when you consider that the verse does render that the doors were locked, bringing the readers attention to the doors. But lets not re-write it. Anyway, I hope I make myself understandable whether or not you agree; I at least hope my presentation is rational and able to be understood. 2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. KJV God bless, Jeff |