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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
81 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88274 | ||
Hi The Curtman, "Let us make man in our image". Jehovah is speaking to Jesus. (Col. 1:15)I already addressed this issue. Certainly the word elohim is in the plural. But as you know I wanted to know what Lexicon or Hebrew authority has defined "elohim" as you did, "plurality in unity". You quoted the editors of the NIV (known trinitarians)as saying the plural form denotes foregleams of the trinity. All I can say to that is absolute nonsense. You can not ignore as I said earlier that this word is used in the same way for individual pagan divinities, such as Dagon (1 Samuel 5:7) and Marduk (Daniel 1:2), who were not triune gods. Commenting on this, Oxford scholar R. B. Girdlestone writes in his Synonyms of the Old Testament: “Many critics, however, of unimpeachable [Trinitarian] orthodoxy, think it wiser to rest where such divines as Cajetan [a theologian] in the Church of Rome and Calvin among Protestants were content to stand, and to take the plural form as a plural of majesty.” Such Trinitarian theologians doubtless realized that if they took ‘Elo·him´ as a numerical plural (gods), they would become polytheists! Summing up on so-called Old Testament proofs of the Trinity, the Protestant Cyclopædia by M’Clintock and Strong states: “Thus it appears that none of the passages cited from the Old Test[ament] in proof of the Trinity are conclusive . . . We do not find in the Old Test[ament] clear or decided proof upon this subject.” Truthfinder |
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82 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88273 | ||
Hi The Curtman, "Let us make man in our image". Jehovah is speaking to Jesus. (Col. 1:15)I already addressed this issue. Certainly the word elohim is in the plural. But as you know I wanted to know what Lexicon or Hebrew authority has defined "elohim" as you did, "plurality in unity". You quoted the editors of the NIV (known trinitarians)as saying the plural form denotes foregleams of the trinity. All I can say to that is absolute nonsense. You can not ignore as I said earlier that this word is used in the same way for individual pagan divinities, such as Dagon (1 Samuel 5:7) and Marduk (Daniel 1:2), who were not triune gods. Commenting on this, Oxford scholar R. B. Girdlestone writes in his Synonyms of the Old Testament: “Many critics, however, of unimpeachable [Trinitarian] orthodoxy, think it wiser to rest where such divines as Cajetan [a theologian] in the Church of Rome and Calvin among Protestants were content to stand, and to take the plural form as a plural of majesty.” Such Trinitarian theologians doubtless realized that if they took ‘Elo·him´ as a numerical plural (gods), they would become polytheists! Summing up on so-called Old Testament proofs of the Trinity, the Protestant Cyclopædia by M’Clintock and Strong states: “Thus it appears that none of the passages cited from the Old Test[ament] in proof of the Trinity are conclusive . . . We do not find in the Old Test[ament] clear or decided proof upon this subject.” Truthfinder |
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83 | how/when was BC/AD initiated? | Is 61:2 | Truthfinder | 88219 | ||
Hi, When? If you notice, The New Catholic Encyclopedia says that Dionysius Exiguus, a Catholic monk, early in the "sixth" century, “was the first to date the Christian era by the birth of Christ, but he made a 4- to 7-year error.” Actually he made but a little over a year error. Truthfinder |
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84 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88179 | ||
Hi Pastor Glenn, Sorry I don't understand your question. But since wisdom as always existed, then certainly knowledge along with understanding have always existed. Yet, it is quite conclusive that Revelation 3:14 and Col 3:15 along with Proverb 8:22 that this one was indeed the "son" of God, the only begotten son" John 1:14 created by God, the "only-begotten god" (John 1:18)who has explained the Almighty God,(his Father). Notice please, 1 Cor 8:5, "For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him." Truthfinder |
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85 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88123 | ||
Hi The Curtman Here's one example to answer your question. You said in you post that elo-him means "plurality in unity". I want to know, "says who"? I want to know the authority that defines elo-him that way. You see, ordinarily the eem sufix or ending of Heb words indicate the masculine plural, as "os" indicated the masculine singular of most Spanish nouns. In Psalm 89:6: “Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God [bi·beneh´ ´E·lim´]?” You notice here Jehovah is in the plural but refering only to one God. If it were intended to mean "plurality in unity" then the LXX (Greek translation would have used the word "theon" but it did not. It used the word "theos" (the singular form of the word for God) thus showing elo-him when refering to Jehovah is in the singular. Truthfinder That the plural form is used to denote a single individual here and in a number of other places is supported by the translation of ´E·lim´ by the singular form The·os´ in the Greek Septuagint; likewise by Deus in the Latin Vulgate. Theon is the plural in Greek and Deum in Latin. |
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86 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Truthfinder | 88022 | ||
Hi Tim, Yes, Tim I agree if Christ died for Manasseh (guilty of shedding innocent blood in great quantity) which he did, (2Ki 21:10-16) then he did indeed die for "all". I agree with you on your arguement here. But show me please a verse that says that God's active force or holy spirit is specifically Jesus. I thought Jesus' second coming was much later than pennecost of 33 C.E. John 14:26, "But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU. Honestly, I have never read/argued the point of the Holy Spirit being Jesus as God, but I believe I have a sound basis for believing the way I do, and certainly agree that any time and every time Almighty God Jehovah accomplishes/ed something, his active force had to have been involved. Sincerly. Truthfinder |
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87 | Whose will causes a believer to sin? | Rev 13:8 | Truthfinder | 88017 | ||
Hi Tim, Well said Tim, simple and true. Truthfinder |
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88 | Did the Gospel writers write in Greek | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88013 | ||
Hi EdB, History tells us that Matthew was written in Hebrew and Hebrew was still common during the days of the apostles. Remember that the inscription placed above Jesus when he was put to death, was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Notice the evidence we have: External evidence to the effect that Matthew originally wrote this Gospel in Hebrew reaches as far back as Papias of Hierapolis, of the second century C.E. Eusebius quoted Papias as stating: “Matthew collected the oracles in the Hebrew language.” (The Ecclesiastical History, III, XXXIX, 16) Early in the third century, Origen made reference to Matthew’s account and, in discussing the four Gospels, is quoted by Eusebius as saying that the “first was written . . . according to Matthew, who was once a tax-collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, . . . in the Hebrew language.” (The Ecclesiastical History, VI, XXV, 3-6) The scholar Jerome (of the fourth and fifth centuries C.E.) wrote in his work De viris inlustribus (Concerning Illustrious Men), chapter III, that Matthew “composed a Gospel of Christ in Judaea in the Hebrew language and characters for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed. . . . Moreover, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected.”—Translation from the Latin text edited by E. C. Richardson and published in the series “Texte und Untersuchungen zur Geschichte der altchristlichen Literatur,” Leipzig, 1896, Vol. 14, pp. 8, 9. McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia states: “Passages from Matthew are quoted by Justin Martyr, by the author of the letter to Diognetus (see in Otto’s Justin Martyr, vol. ii), by Hegesippus, Irenæus, Tatian, Athenagoras, Theophilus, Clement, Tertullian, and Origen. It is not merely from the matter, but the manner of the quotations, from the calm appeal as to a settled authority, from the absence of all hints of doubt, that we regard it as proved that the book we possess had not been the subject of any sudden change.” A statement by a modern Bible scholar, Hugh G. Schonfield, is also of interest. He writes on page 11 of An Old Hebrew Text of St. Matthew’s Gospel: “As far back as the fourth century we hear of a Hebrew Matthew preserved in the Jewish archives at Tiberias.” Truthfinder |
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89 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | Truthfinder | 87986 | ||
I can assure you, he sees them. Truthfinder |
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90 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | Truthfinder | 87972 | ||
Does "all" always mean "all"? Here's a couple of examples where it does not. 1) Let's read Paul’s words at 2 Timothy 1:15, evidently written from Rome about the year 65 C.E., and may indicate that the strong persecution then beginning to rage against the Christians on the part of the Roman authorities had now caused many of the Christian ‘men of Asia’ to shun association with the imprisoned apostle Paul, turning away from Paul at a critical time. The expression “all the men in the district of Asia” can not imply a total turning away of all Christians in Asia, because Paul immediately thereafter commended Onesiphorus, who was evidently a resident of Ephesus. 2Ti 1:16-18; 4:19. 2) Jesus' words as found at Mr 14:36, “Abba, Father, all things are possible to you; remove this cup from me. Yet not what I want, but what you want.” Yet, Titus 1:2 tells us that "God cannot lie". Thus "all" must be relative in certain situations. Truthfinder |
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91 | What yr was Jesus born? | Is 61:2 | Truthfinder | 87951 | ||
Hi Prazn, Thank you for your commendation. I am far from being a Bible scholar, but I do possess an extensive library and enjoy researching it. Truthfinder |
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92 | What yr was Jesus born? | Is 61:2 | Truthfinder | 87950 | ||
Hi Tim, Despite our differences in understanding of various scriptural texts, I find it refreshing that you remain cordial, amiable. In that I commend you. Have a nice day. Truthfinder |
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93 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87917 | ||
Proverbs 8:22 "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago." The second half of the verse clearly shows that something was achieved, accomplished. The earliest thing accomplished was the creation of his "only-begotten son". 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, This verse also shows the translations must be "produced" not "possessed". Does it make any sense to say that Jesus was possessed as with labor pains? No, but he was "created" as with labor pains. Revelation 3:14, helps us here, "These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God." when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, Now let's look at Col 1:15 and see that Jesus is that "master worker". 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist "and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time," Here, who other that Jesus would Almighty God be especially fond of? Noneother that his "only-begotten son". 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men. Truthfinder |
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94 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87916 | ||
Hi Radioman, Now that I think about it, the expression “the creation of God” of Revelation 3:14 could mean the creation possessed by God or belonging to God. Or, it could grammatically mean also the creation produced by God. But the apostle John helps us by his writings to know which kind of genitive it is in the Greek. It is agreed by producers of the Greek text of the Christian Scriptures that Revelation 3:14 quoted or borrowed its Greek words from Proverbs 8:22. As translated by Charles Thomson from the Greek Septuagint, Proverbs 8:22 reads: “The Lord created me, the beginning of His ways, for His works.” Here we see "created" not "possessed" in the (Greek LXX) and also we see the word “beginning” (Greek LXX: arkhé) does not mean Beginner, Origin or Originator. Plainly it means the first one or original one of God’s ways to be created. This same thought is conveyed in Revelation 3:14 in regard to the “beginning of the creation of God.” Truthfinder |
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95 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87912 | ||
Hi Radioman, “The Lord [Hebrew: JHVH, created me as the beginning of his way, the first of his works from the commencement. From eternity was I appointed chief, from the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. When there were yet no depths, was I brought forth; when there were yet no springs laden heavily with water. Before the mountains were yet sunk down, before the hills was I brought forth: while as yet he had not made the land and open fields, nor the chief of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle over the face of the deep; when he fastened the skies above; when the springs of the deep became strong; when he assigned to the sea his decree, that the waters should not transgress his order; when he established firmly the foundations of the earth: then was I near him, as a nursling; and I was day by day his delights, playing before him at all times; playing [feminine participle] in the world, his earth; and having my delights with the sons of men.”—Proverbs 8:22-31, Rabbi Isaac Leeser’s translation, of 1853. Jewish leaders are concerned about the application that may be made of the above Bible verses. In the Soncino Press edition of Proverbs, of 1945, we read in the footnote on this section: “For the Jewish reader this interpretation is of much importance in view of the Christological use made of this section by the early Church Fathers.” At any rate, Proverbs 8:22 speaks of something as being created as the beginning of the way of Jehovah God, as “the first of his works from the commencement.” Truthfinder |
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96 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87911 | ||
Radioman, A little study of this says otherwise. See Tertullian’s “Against Praxeas.” Therein, in Chapter 7, he says: “The Son likewise acknowledges the Father, speaking in his own person, under the name of Wisdom: ‘The LORD formed me as the beginning of his ways.’” See also comments on Proverbs 8:22 by Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Theophilus of Antioch, Clement of Alexandria, Cyprian (The Treatises of), Origen’s “De Principiis,” Dionysius, and Lactantius. Truthfinder |
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97 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87910 | ||
Proverbs 8:22 Persons who accept only the Hebrew Scriptures or who do not believe in Jesus Christ often explain Proverbs 8:22-31 as applying to Wisdom personified only in some figurative way. That application of the verses, however, does not agree with what is known about God. Furthermore, accepting the sound view that the entire Bible, including Proverbs, is inspired, a person can see that the description of “Wisdom” here in Proverbs matches what is said elsewhere in the Bible about the Son of God. We read: “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. . . . Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains . . . When he prepared the heavens I was there; . . . then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, . . . and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.”—Prov. 8:22-31. Jewish commentators, objecting to any application of this passage to Jesus as the Messiah, have usually held that this is merely a literary personification of wisdom. Thus, W. Gunther Plaut, in his work Book of Proverbs—A Commentary, says that these verses apply to Wisdom “personified only in a figurative way.” This passage, however, cannot be speaking merely about divine wisdom or wisdom in the abstract. Why not? Because the “Wisdom” that is here depicted was “created” or “produced” (Hebrew, qa·nah´) as the beginning of Jehovah’s way. The Scriptures show that Jehovah God himself has always existed. (Ps. 90:2; 1 Tim. 1:17) Since he is eternal and he has always been wise, then his wisdom has always existed; it never was created or produced; it was not “brought forth as with labor pains.” (Job 9:2, 4; 12:9, 13; 28:20, 23; Rom. 11:33-36) Wisdom does not exist apart from a personality capable of possessing and reflecting it. Consequently, this “Wisdom” must be a personification picturing someone who was created “as the beginning of [God’s] way.” The Christian Greek Scriptures aid a person to understand to whom this passage evidently refers. They repeatedly testify to the fact that the Messiah had a prehuman existence as the Son of God in heaven with Jehovah. (John 17:5; 6:62) In that prehuman existence he worked with Jehovah in creating all other things. John 1:3 says about this one: “All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.”—Compare Colossians 1:15, 16. It is understandable that the Son of God could be depicted as created “Wisdom.” Through him Jehovah’s wise purpose, including the role of the Messiah whom the Jews were long awaiting, was made manifest. The apostle Paul said about Jesus: “Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge.” (Col. 2:3) While King Solomon was renowned for his God-given wisdom, Jesus was “something more than Solomon.” (1 Ki. 4:30-34; Matt. 12:42) Those who accepted Jesus Christ and had faith in him realized that he was “the power of God and the wisdom of God.”—1 Cor. 1:24, 30. Accordingly, what we know about our eternally wise God and the information in the Christian Greek Scriptures about Jesus combine to make clear the appropriateness of applying Proverbs 8:22-31 to the Son of God who became the Messiah. That passage remarkably fits the origin and activities of that one whose fondness for mankind even led to his dying as a ransom sacrifice.—1 Tim. 2:5, 6; John 3:16. In the past, commentators and translators who held to the Trinity doctrine argued that qa·nah´ should here be rendered “possessed.” Qa·nah´ can convey the sense of either “acquire (possess)” or “produce.” (Gen. 4:1; Deut. 32:6; Ps. 139:13; Neh. 5:16) But scholars acknowledge that the context here points to the rendering “produced” or “created,” since verses 24 and 25 speak of Wisdom as being “brought forth as with labor pains.” This rendering is borne out by the Greek Septuagint, the Syriac Peshitta Version and the Targums. So now even translations by trinitarians, such as the Catholic Jerusalem Bible, use the rendering “produced” or “created.” Truthfinder |
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98 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87907 | ||
Hmmmmm, And the footnote in those translations say possessed means "formed". Truthfinder |
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99 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87890 | ||
Hi The Curtman, I am happy to see that you agree with me concerning the use of elohim in referencing angels, certain men etc. Hebrew is indeed an interesting language. I don't even claim to know Hebrew but I have studied it in Rice University, Houston TX. Here's one example to answer your question. Ordinarily the eem sufix of Heb words indicate the masculine plural. In Psalm 89:6: “Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God [bi·beneh´ ´E·lim´]?” That the plural form is used to denote a single individual here and in a number of other places is supported by the translation of ´E·lim´ by the singular form The·os´ in the Greek Septuagint; likewise by Deus in the Latin Vulgate. Theon is the plural in Greek and Deum in Latin. Truthfinder |
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100 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87889 | ||
Hi Tim, I am certainly not saying God is lying Titus 1:2. Yet 2 Tim 3:16 says "all" scripture is inspired of God", so "his" use of elohim, el, elim, and theos must be understood as "gods" too. That is why the most common Biblical word in the original was whvh, to identify the one true God that is to be given exclusive devotion. Therefore Jesus is "worshipped" in a relative sense. He should be worshipped, be given honor as God's only-begotten son, not as the Almighty who alone deserves exclusive devotion. Exclusive devotion is demanded by Jehovah in the second of the “Ten Words” or Ten Commandments written by the finger of God: “I am Jehovah your God . . . You must never have any other gods against my face [or, “any other gods in defiance of me”]. . . . because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.” (De 5:6-9) 17 Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. Mat. 4:10 10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” As you say Tim, then did Jesus lie? Truthfinder |
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