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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | Here's what Jesus said before he died. | 1 Pet 3:19 | Truthfinder | 93954 | ||
Hi Emmaus, Amen Emmaus. The "Church" has taught many non Bible based things. In the first century, the chief priests and other religious leaders persecuted Jesus’ followers. (John 19:15; Acts 5:27-33) As a result, it was said of Christianity: “Truly as regards this sect it is known to us that everywhere it is spoken against.” (Acts 28:22) It should not be surprising, therefore, that true Christianity today likewise is spoken of abusively. Yet, after examining evidence against early Christians, Gamaliel, the famous Pharisee and teacher of the Law, advised: “Do not meddle with these men, but let them alone; (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them;) otherwise, you may perhaps be found fighters actually against God.”—Acts 5:38, 39. Truthfinder |
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42 | Ref. on animals having no spirit? | James 2:26 | Truthfinder | 93945 | ||
Hi Tuggy, I agree with you. If you have read my posts you would have seen very very similar understanding as to what the Holy Scriptures say about the soul. Very well put. There are a few points I would like to add. King David wrote: “I foresaw the Lord always before my face; for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved . . . moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [Sheol], neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” (Ps 15:8-10, LXX, Bagster [16:8-11, NW]) On the day of Pentecost, 33 C.E., the apostle Peter applied this psalm to Jesus Christ, in declaring to the Jews the truth of Christ’s resurrection. (Ac 2:25-31) The Scriptures, both the Hebrew and the Greek, therefore show that it was the “soul” of Jesus Christ that was resurrected. Jesus Christ was ‘put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.’ (1Pe 3:18) “Flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom,” said the apostle Paul. (1Co 15:50) This would also exclude flesh and bones. Flesh and bones do not have life unless they have blood, for the blood contains the “soul” or is that which is necessary for the life of the creature of flesh.—Ge 9:4. Throughout the Scriptures it is evident that there is no “immaterial soul” separate and distinct from the body. As you have said, the soul dies when the body dies. Even of Jesus Christ it is written that “he poured out his soul to the very death.” His soul was in Sheol. He had no existence as a soul or person during that time. (Isa 53:12; Ac 2:27; compare Eze 18:4.)He trusted his God totally. He existed only in God's memory for 3 days. Consequently, in the resurrection there is no joining again of soul and body. However, whether spiritual or earthly, the individual must have a body or organism, for all persons, heavenly or earthly, possess bodies. To be again a person, one who has died would have to have a body, either a physical or a spiritual body. The Bible says: “If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.”—1Co 15:44. But is the old body reassembled in the resurrection? or is it a precise replica of the former body, made exactly as it was when the person died? The Scriptures answer in the negative when they deal with the resurrection of Christ’s anointed brothers to life in the heavens: “Nevertheless, someone will say: ‘How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?’ You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies; and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain, it may be, of wheat or any one of the rest; but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body.”—1Co 15:35-38. The heavenly ones receive a spiritual body, for it pleases God for them to have bodies suitable for their heavenly environment. And is it immortal? Jesus gained immortality when resurrected and likewise the anointed Christians called to reign with him in the heavens (1Pe 1:3, 4), the promise is that they share with Christ in the likeness of his resurrection. (Ro 6:5) Thus, as in the case of their Lord and Head, the anointed members of the Christian congregation who die faithful receive a resurrection to immortal spirit life, so that “this which is mortal puts on immortality.” (1Co 15:50-54) As with Jesus, immortality in their case does not mean simply everlasting life, or mere freedom from death. That they, too, are granted “the power of an indestructible life” as fellow heirs with Christ is seen from the apostle Paul’s association of incorruptibility with the immortality they attain. (1Co 15:42-49) Over them “the second death has no authority.”—Re 20:6 This grant of immortality to the Kingdom heirs is all the more remarkable, in view of the fact that even God’s angels are shown to be mortal, despite their possessing spirit bodies, not carnal ones. Angelic mortality is evident in view of the judgment of death entered against the spirit son who became God’s Adversary, or Satan, and also against those other angels who followed that satanic course and “did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place.” (Jude 6; Mt 25:41; Re 20:10, 14) So the grant of “indestructible life” (Heb 7:16) or “indissoluble life” to those Christians who gain the privilege of reigning with God’s Son in the heavenly Kingdom marvelously demonstrates God’s confidence in them. Truthfinder |
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43 | What was Jesus doing in the earth 3 days | Matthew | Truthfinder | 93699 | ||
Hi Hank, You ask me two questions. In addressing the second, we are in agreement in concluding that the Bible is not a science book. It teaches us about our God and his only-begotten-Son, Jesus. I have yet to come across the phrase you use, "God the Son" though. When I think of Jesus' godship and his relatonship as taught in the Holy Scriptures with his Father, I most certainly disagree with you. I thought this was established months ago. So I wonder why you ask that of me? But if I am mistaken and it was with another then I apologise and would be more than happy to share the scriptural basis for my conclusion. If not, then have a nice day. The Genesis account of creation allows for the earth to be billions of years old and does not limit each creative day to 24 hours. (Genesis 1:1, 5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31; 2:3, 4) An honest appraisal of the Bible shows that while it is not a science textbook, it certainly is not “sheer nonsense.” It is, in fact, in complete harmony with proven science. There are about forty known quasars (the active nucleus of a galaxy also known as quasi-stellar objects), the discovery of the most distant one of which was announced on May 17, 1965, and which is known as 3C-9. It is stated that this celestial object is so far away that it seems to be close to the beginning of universal time. “The light is so far away that the light from it began to journey to earth soon after the postulated birth of the universe.” The life of those quasars probably ended during the billions of years that were required for their light to reach our earth. Says the report: “The observed rate at which the universe is expanding suggests that it was born in a single point some thirteen billion years ago—roughly three times the age of the earth.”—New York Times, May 18, 1965, pages one and two. Since light of some stars is many billions of light-years from earth and their light is currently seen, then of course they were in existance billions of years ago. Truthfinder |
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44 | What was Jesus doing in the earth 3 days | Matthew | Truthfinder | 93650 | ||
Hi Gracefull, Please show me were I am wrong. The text you site says,"18 Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. 19 In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water." "Being made alive in the spirit" was his resurrection 3 days after his death! The reason why those that personally knew him from sight while alive did not recognize him because he materialized (after his resurrection for 40 days) in various human forms and appeared to many. Spirit creatures are invisible to humans unless they materialize. While in his "spirit state" though, "preached or proclaimed" condemnation to the fallen spirt angels sometime later. Truthfinder |
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45 | What was Jesus doing in the earth 3 days | Matthew | Truthfinder | 93647 | ||
Pastor Genn, I don't recall saying Jesus' spirit did nor would cease to exist. I wouldn’t say that (intentionally). :) Please show me, and I'll clarify it. Also, certainly Jesus existed before being sent to the earth by God, as John 4:34 says, "Jesus said to them: “My food is for me to do the will of him that sent me and to finish his work." Gen. 1:26, "Let us make man in our image." Col. 1:15 also tells me that Jesus is the image of the invisible God and through him (Jesus) all the universe was created billions of years ago. So indeed Jesus existed before he came to the earth and I am sorry if I left that impression. Truthfinder |
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46 | Inability? | Bible general Archive 2 | Truthfinder | 93369 | ||
Hi again New Creature, I try to remember one of the comments, I think it was Hank that said we were in a glass bowl. But even if our posts weren't, there certainly is one that observes what we write, right? Certainly God would not even ask us to do something we couldn't do much less require it of us. Even the Mosaic Law was "good" and was something the Israelites could do, but the unfaithful priests continually added to it, thus making it impossible to do those added portions. Truthfinder |
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47 | What does sanctification mean? | Bible general Archive 2 | Truthfinder | 93357 | ||
Hi Tim, Sorry about sending this note to you! I meant to send it to Fritzygirl. Truthfinder |
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48 | What does sanctification mean? | Bible general Archive 2 | Truthfinder | 93355 | ||
Hi Fritzygirl, After assessing various sources I come to the conclusion that the word "sanctification" means an act or process of making holy, separating, or setting apart for the service or use of the Almighty God. Or it can be the state of being holy, sanctified, or purified. “Sanctification” draws attention to the action whereby holiness is produced. You will find that words drawn from the Hebrew verb qadhash´ and words related to the Greek adjective ha´gios are rendered “holy,” “sanctified,” “made sacred,” and “set apart.” A better understanding of the subject can be gained by a consideration of the usage of the words in the original languages. They are applied in the Scriptures to (1) Jehovah God, (2) Jesus Christ, (3) angels, (4) men and animals, (5) things, (6) periods of time or occasions, and (7) land possessions. Sometimes the Hebrew word for “sanctify” was used in the sense of preparing or making oneself ready or in fit condition. Jehovah commanded Moses to say to the complaining Israelites: “Sanctify yourselves for tomorrow, as you will certainly eat meat.” (Nu 11:18) Before Israel crossed the Jordan River, Joshua ordered: “Sanctify yourselves, for tomorrow Jehovah will do wonderful things in your midst.” (Jos 3:5) In all cases the term has a religious, spiritual, and moral sense. It can denote the getting away from anything that displeases Jehovah or appears bad in his eyes, including physical uncleanness. God said to Moses: “Go to the people, and you must sanctify them today and tomorrow, and they must wash their mantles. . . . because on the third day Jehovah will come down before the eyes of all the people upon Mount Sinai.” (Ex 19:10, 11) The word is used to mean purifying or cleansing, as at 2 Samuel 11:4, which reads: “She was sanctifying herself from her uncleanness.” The first two of the seven, I will address. 1) Jehovah God is holy and absolutely clean. As the Creator and Universal Sovereign, he has the right to the exclusive worship of all of his creatures. Therefore he says that he will demonstrate his holiness, acting to sanctify himself and his name before the eyes of all creation: “I shall certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.” (Eze 38:23) Those who desire his favor, and life, must “sanctify” him and his name, that is, they must hold that name in its proper place as separate from and higher than all others. (Le 22:32; Isa 8:13; 29:23) Jesus taught his followers to pray as the foremost thing: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified [or, “be held sacred; be treated as holy”].”—Mt 6:9 2) Also, Jesus Christ. Jehovah God selected his only-begotten Son and sent him to earth to do a special work in behalf of God’s name and to give his life as a ransom for humankind. But he was not received and respected by the Jewish nation as that sent one; rather, they denied his sonship and his position with his Father. He replied to them: “Do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?”—Joh 10:36. The apostle Peter writes to Christians, telling them to “sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts.” He shows that one who does this will stay away from what is bad and will do good. The people of the nations hold in their hearts an awe and a fear of men and of other things. But the Christian should set Christ in the right place in his affections and motivations. This would mean recognizing Christ’s position as God’s Chief Agent of life, the Messianic King, God’s High Priest, and the one who gave his life as a ransom. He should also keep Christ’s example of good conduct before him and hold a good conscience in connection with his own conduct as a Christian. If a person, even a ruler, should harshly demand a reason for his hope, the Christian who thus sanctifies Christ in his heart will make a good defense, yet with a mild temper and deep respect. 1Pe 3:10-16. Truthfinder |
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49 | Inability? | Bible general Archive 2 | Truthfinder | 93350 | ||
Nice response, New Creature. Just standing by and wathching. :). Truthfinder |
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50 | If Jesus did it, way can't I? | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 92805 | ||
Hi Radioman2, Your questions are fair. My objection is merely accuracy. Many churches teach thier their flock that the JW's don't believe in Jesus! You know that that is wrong. What they mean to say is JW's don't believe that Jesus is Almighty God. I too have observed that the "filtered" information from their literature paints an accurate picture of what they present. I understand the complexity of the developement of the Trinity doctrine and why you might have "faith" in its truthfullness. That is why I am here, to present the oppossing understanding. It is not simply, well, JW's have changed the "Bible", they are a "cult", they oppose all that we stand for! That again is simply not true. Of course, though if the shoe fits, then we must humbly wear it. Reasoning from the scriptures, not "twisting" to make a doctrine fit, will lead one to accurate understanding. Many of my JW associates were once Baptists (my mother), Church of Christ (my Grandparents) my wife (Methodist) and I attended their services. Also, if I want to really know what a particular "stand" of a religious group is, I ask a knowlegable member of their group, instead of some web site that opposses that group. Is that not fair? I believe it is. As a result, why would we want to attend a church gathering that teaches what we have left, what we have found to be wrong? So, in answer to your question, yes it is discouraged to attend other religious services. Truthfinder |
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51 | If Jesus did it, way can't I? | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 92737 | ||
Hi Radioman2, It is indeed good to hear what you say, and thanks. I do remind you though of something I have posted before to others and that is, if I were to want to know what a Baptist believed, I would get more accurate answers by asking a Biptist, and the more knowledgable that Baptist the better. Have a good day. Truthfinder |
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52 | If Jesus did it, way can't I? | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 92706 | ||
Hi again Radioman, Your quote said this: 'Unfortunately, millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide are required to consult the NWT exclusively. That is not true. Here is a quote of the Watchtower magazine: "Too, we note the humility of the committee in acknowledging in their footnotes that there are other ways that passages could be rendered. Appreciating this, we have always both recognized and encouraged the use of a variety of Bible translations. Thus, while deeply grateful for the work of the New World Bible Translation Committee, Jehovah’s witnesses use whatever Bibles are available in the local languages. Whether it be the clear, modern-language New World Translation or another, we encourage all to use the lamp of God’s Word to light life’s roadway.—Ps. 119:105." Truthfinder |
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53 | If Jesus did it, way can't I? | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 92704 | ||
Hi Radioman2, You mentioned several verses in this post and most I've already addressed. I still wonder if you truly agree with the quotes you post. They contain many errors. Here is just one example with regards to the text found at Titus 2:13 – Rendered in the NWT: "...while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus." The NASB, in agreement with all other versions, says: "...looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus." I now ask is the NASB in truly in agreement with all other versions? If I presented one other version then that statement would be misleading and in error. I believe one should thoroughly research his subject before making such dogmatic statements, as many read these posts. All the tests quoted are indeed scholarly substantiated. Here is not only one version that agrees with the NWT but others too. 1934 “of the great God and of our Savior Christ Jesus” The Riverside New Testament,Boston and New York. 1935 “of the great God and of our Saviour Christ Jesus” A New Translation of the Bible, by James Moffatt, New York and London. 1957 “of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ” La Sainte Bible, by Louis Segond, Paris. 1970 “of the great God and of our Savior Christ Jesus” The New American Bible, New York and London. 1972 “of the great God and of Christ Jesus our saviour” The New Testament in Modern English, by J. B. Phillips, New York. You see Radioman2 in reality it is not the NWT that is in error but these versions that you quoted. They are biased toward the Trinity. That is wrong. This verse at Titus 2:13 clearly shows this. You see, in this verse we find two nouns connected by (kai, “and”), the first noun being preceded by the definite article (tou, “of the”) and the second noun without the definite article. A similar construction is found in 2Pe 1:1, 2, where, in vs 2, a clear distinction is made between God and Jesus. This indicates that when two distinct persons are connected by kai, if the first person is preceded by the definite article it is not necessary to repeat the definite article before the second person. Examples of this construction in the Greek text are found in Ac 13:50; 15:22; Eph 5:5; 2Th 1:12; 1Ti 5:21; 6:13; 2Ti 4:1. This construction is also found in LXX. ( Pr 24:21 ftn.) According to An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek, by C. F. D. Moule, Cambridge, England, 1971, p. 109, the sense “of the great God, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ . . . is possible in [koi·ne´] Greek even without the repetition [of the definite article].” A detailed study of the construction in Tit 2:13 is found in The Authorship of the Fourth Gospel and Other Critical Essays, by Ezra Abbot, Boston, 1888, pp. 439-457. On p. 452 of this work the following comments are found: “Take an example from the New Testament. In Matt. xxi. 12 we read that Jesus ‘cast out all those that were selling and buying in the temple,’ . No one can reasonably suppose that the same persons are here described as both selling and buying. In Mark the two classes are made distinct by the insertion of (tous) before (agoraontas); here it is safely left to the intelligence of the reader to distinguish them. In the case before us [Tit 2:13], the omission of the article before [so·te´ros] seems to me to present no difficulty,—not because soteros) is made sufficiently definite by the addition of [he·mon´] (Winer), for, since God as well as Christ is often called “our Saviour,” [he do´xa tou me·ga´lou The·ou´ kai so·te´ros he·mon´], standing alone, would most naturally be understood of one subject, namely, God, the Father; but the addition of [I·e·sou´ Khri·stou´ to so·te´ros he·mon´] changes the case entirely, restricting the (so te ros) (he mon) to a person or being who, according to Paul’s habitual use of language, is distinguished from the person or being whom he designates as [ho The·os´], so that there was no need of the repetition of the article to prevent ambiguity. So in 2 Thess. i. 12, the expression [ka·ta´ ten kha´rin tou The·ou´ he·mon´ kai ky·ri´ou] would naturally be understood of one subject, and the article would be required before kuriou if two were intended; but the simple addition of [I·e·sou´ Khri·stou´ to ky·ri´ou] makes the reference to the two distinct subjects clear without the insertion of the article.” Therefore, in Tit 2:13, two distinct persons, Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, are mentioned. Throughout the Holy Scriptures it is not possible to identify Jehovah and Jesus as being the same individual. Truthfinder |
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54 | If Jesus did it, way can't I? | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 91967 | ||
Just a brief comment to your post. I assume that you agree with it, otherwise you would not have posted it. Some of it is true but on the other hand some are mere assertions lacking any truth at all. It would have been most commendable in my opinion if the NWT translators were the ones that discovered the fallacy connected with the translation of the words for Lord. The NWT actually followed a precedent set by well over 150 documented Bible scholars, many of which were Trinitarians themselves. If you have had the privilege of engaging in an in depth research of this subject yourself you surely have come to the same conclusion that I have come to. The underlying problem that presents itself in accepting it though, is belief bias. Something we hate to admit and likewise difficult to overcome. I know you know the account of Paul. He had to be struck blind to see the light by our Lord Jesus. Evidently his heart was right, don’t you agree? My basic belief is honoring my heavenly Father as did faithful men and women for thousands of years before the Messiah came on the scene. I don’t believe that has changed. I honor Jesus as the Son of God, nothing more and nothing less. I too believe that my Lord and Savior Jesus repeatedly teaches me to do just that throughout the Gospels. I am a truth finder and I do adjust my thinking from time to time as the Scriptures show me. I pray for an open heart, for a humble heart, to be able to do this. I research and research, making sure of what the “original” tells me. Additionally, I would never share my findings with anyone to mislead them, if I first did not totally believe them and have scriptural basis. Thus, if I offend anyone, I believe it’s the truth of the Word of God that did the offending. Reasoning on the Scriptures has been my life now for almost a half century and I still enjoy it regardless of the response. If you do the same as I, then tell me why the difference in understanding and belief? Sincerely Truthfinder |
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55 | If Jesus did it, way can't I? | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 91901 | ||
Hi Tim, My "perhaps" was in reference as to "when" they would have been changed, since there are over 5,000 Greek manuscripts and only the instance in Revelation kept the abbreviated form of the tetragrammaton. The evidence that Matthew was written in Hebrew goes as far back as Papias of Hierapolis, of the second century C.E. Eusebius quoted Papias as stating: “Matthew collected the oracles in the Hebrew language.” (The Ecclesiastical History, III, XXXIX, 16) Early in the third century, Origen made reference to Matthew’s account and, in discussing the four Gospels, is quoted by Eusebius as saying that the “first was written . . . according to Matthew, who was once a tax-collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, . . . in the Hebrew language.” (The Ecclesiastical History, VI, XXV, 3-6) The scholar Jerome (of the fourth and fifth centuries C.E.) wrote in his work De viris inlustribus (Concerning Illustrious Men), chapter III, that Matthew “composed a Gospel of Christ in Judaea in the Hebrew language and characters for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed. . . . Moreover, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected.”—Translation from the Latin text edited by E. C. Richardson and published in the series “Texte und Untersuchungen zur Geschichte der altchristlichen Literatur,” Leipzig, 1896, Vol. 14, pp. 8, 9. In the Matthew account it is also noted that the quotations of the Old Testament containing the Tetragrammaton are preserved. When Matthew though, was translated into the Greek, sometime later, those instances of the Tetragrammaton were changed to 'kurios. Truthfinder |
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56 | If Jesus did it, way can't I? | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 91849 | ||
(Part2) English word for the tetragrammaton is Jehovah. They use the English word. Here are some examples: 19th-century Bible scholar E. Henderson wrote in his commentary on Jer 31:20: “Nothing can excel the touching exhibition of tender parental feeling towards a returning prodigal, which is here presented by Jehovah. . . . Though he had thus spoken against [the idolatrous Ephraimites] and punished them . . . , he never forgot them, but, on the contrary, delighted in the anticipation of their ultimate recovery.” In his commentary on Zephaniah, Professor C. F. Keil wrote: “Zephaniah’s prophecy . . . not only commences with the announcement of a universal judgment upon the whole world, out of which the judgment rises that will fall upon Judah on account of its sins, and upon the world of nations on account of its hostility to the people of Jehovah; but it treats throughout of the great and terrible day of Jehovah.” Tim you wrote, But, our English Bible is not written in Hebrew. ;-) Neither was the Greek New Testament written in Hebrew. The translators of the Bible have simply done the exact same thing that the New Testament writers did when they 'translated' 'YHWH' as 'kurios'. International acceptance of translation of God’s name is seen in their Bible translations. Here are a few of the various translations of the Hebrew “yhvh”: Awabakal - Yehóa Bugotu - Jihova Cantonese - Yehwowah Danish - Jehova Dutch - Jehovah Efik - Jehovah English - Jehovah Fijian - Jiova Finnish - Jehova French - Jéhovah Futuna - Ihova German - Jehova Hungarian - Jehova Igbo - Jehova Italian - Geova Japanese - Ehoba Maori - Ihowa Motu - Iehova Mwala-Malu - Jihova Narrinyeri - Jehovah Nembe - Jihova Petats - Jihouva Polish - Jehowa Portuguese - Jeová Romanian - Iehova Samoan - Ieova Sotho - Jehova Spanish - Jehová Swahili - Yehova Swedish - Jehova Tahitian - Iehova Tagalog - Jehova Tongan - Jihova Venda - Yehova Xhosa - uYehova Yoruba - Jehofah Zulu - uJehova So Tim, Jehovah is the English word for yhvh as most any “commentary” tells us, the prefaces of Bible Translations that do not use it in their main texts, do. You have admitted before that portions of the New Testament very well might have been originally written in Hebrew and you know Matthew most likely was. Thus your conclusion as to the translators’ of the Bible “reason” for changing what was original has no basis. I have already presented “evidence” not mere speculation of the scholars themselves that conclude the Greek and Matthew’s Hebrew originals contained the tetragrammaton and very very early perhaps some of the very first copies were “changed”. Thus no extant copies today. Clear and simple. Truthfinder |
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57 | If Jesus did it, way can't I? | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 91848 | ||
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, …….This is exactly what happened in the Greek New Testament. The inspired authors always translated 'YHWH' as 'kurios'. The JW's propose all kinds of speculation about the practices of the 1st century Jews, and about the practices of the LXX, but none of this has any meaning as far as the New Testament is concerned……. Tim, you must know what you write is not correct, because as you say, consistent translation is of utmost importance. So now we have two different words Adonai and YHVH translated as kurios. Sarah referred to Abraham as Lord.1 Pet 3:5,6. With past similar reasoning that you have presented to me, am I now to conclude that Abraham is also Jehovah? The problem with your reasoning is all the others words from Hebrew to Greek were translated including Yeshua translated to Jesus. You contend that YHVH was not? Well, the earlier Greek LXX did indeed translate the Heb. YHVH. The papyrus manuscript found in Qumram Cave 4, was dated to the first century B. C. E. A preliminary report of this manuscript was presented in Supplements to Vetus Testamentum, Vol. IV, 1957, p. 157 and in it the Greek letters IAO rendering the Divine name of Lev 3:12 and 4:27 appear. Also John in Revelation 19:6 used God’s name. Greek (allelouia) English (Praise Jah) Hebrew (Halalooyah) . You also wrote: “Every single Greek manuscript translates 'YHWH' as 'kurios' or 'Lord'. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason why we cannot translate 'YHWH' into English as Lord as well. I agree with you Tim, if indeed the originals did, but evidence says otherwise as I’ve shown what Greek scholars (in fact over 150 different Greek scholars) have shown us for the Greek Scriptures. Even Jerome rendered the Tetragrammaton by substituting Dominus, “Lord,” in his Latin Vulgate. He didn’t translate it, he substituted as if the Tetragrammaton were Adonai but it wasn’t. Likewise with the Greek originals that quoted the Tetragrammaton did not translate what Adonai was too. Tim you say the JW’s do this and do that when in fact it’s the scholars that are saying it and I’ve showed you that before. Once again notice what Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible, by C. D. Ginsburg, Ktav Publishing House, New York, 1966 reprint says: “: “We have seen that in many of these one hundred and thirty-four instances in which the present received text reads Adonai in accordance with this Massorah, some of the best MSS. and early editions read the Tetragrammaton, and the question arises how did this variation obtain? The explanation is not far to seek. From time immemorial the Jewish canons decreed that the incommunicable name is to be pronounced Adonai as if it were written [´Adho·nai´] instead of [YHWH]. Nothing was, therefore, more natural for the copyists than to substitute the expression which exhibited the pronunciation for the Tetragrammaton which they were forbiden to pronounce.” Following is a list of these 134 places, according to Gins.Mas, Vol. I, pp. 25, 26, par. 115:. . . Tim you write: The JW's try to make this practice into some kind of conspiracy. Yet, we have the Hebrew manuscripts. We have Strong's concordance. Yes, Tim and the Strong’s concordance tells us the Hebrew word in English is Jehovah. Jehovah is both a transliteration and translation, since it kept the four consonants. In my Greek translation it reads for MATTHAIOS 4:7,10 ton IEXWBA tan theo . And in English “it is Jehovah God You wrote, We have countless commentaries, all of which tell us that the Hebrew word was 'YHWH'. Yes, Tim you are correct again and then you stopped! The commentaries also tell us that the (continued) Truthfinder |
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58 | Jesus | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 91836 | ||
Hi Ed, Yes it does clear it up for me, and I thank you. There is so much to learn from the Bible and too, I have learned so much here on the forum. Truthfinder |
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59 | Jesus | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 91785 | ||
Hi Ed, The King James Version tells us simply, God’s name is Jehovah in Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18. It is revealed in a context that shows that the Owner of that grand name has enemies. In describing these, Psalm 83, verses 17 and 18, in the King James Version of the Bible, reads: “Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish: That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” As you know, "Lord" and "God" are not personal proper nouns but Jehovah and Jesus are the English translations. If my comments were unclearly stated, I just wanted to clearify. That is the only point I was making. Truthfinder |
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60 | Jesus | John 1:1 | Truthfinder | 91760 | ||
Hi Ed …Your right there are many translations that based on Westcott and Hort that use the term Jehovah. that is because Westcott and Hott faced the same problem most translators did how to hanbdle YHWH… A Greek master text of the Christian Greek Scriptures that attained wide acceptance is that produced in 1881 by Cambridge University scholars B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort. It was the product of 28 years of independent labor, though they compared notes regularly. Like Griesbach, they divided manuscripts into families and leaned heavily on what they termed the “neutral text,” which included the renowned Sinaitic Manuscript and the Vatican Manuscript No. 1209, both of the fourth century C.E. Thus, Westcott and Hort did not use manuscripts that contained the Hebrew “yhvh". What they had used kurios (lord). …By the time they did their work, I believe you dated it 1881, they simply used the universally accepted word Tyndale had invented nearly 200 years before Jehovah. Jehovah is a made up word for the term YHWH it was the creation of Tyndale and for you to infer it is anything other is incorrect… Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican order, first rendered the divine name as “Jehova.” This form appeared in his book Pugeo Fidei, published in 1270 C.E Tyndale was also the first English translator to use the name Jehovah in the year 1530 C.E. London scholar David Daniell writes: “It would surely have struck Tyndale’s readers forcibly that the name of God was newly revealed.” You mention Jehovah is a “made up word”? It is the “English” word, using the Hebrew consonants yhvh. Jesus is the English word for the Hebrew consonants vhsha (yeh-ho-shoo-ah )(Strong’s number 3090) So, what’s your point, that we should avoid the made up English words Jesus or Jehovah. Sure they are “made”, as are 100 per cent of the English vocabulary. …..God gave us His name Exodus 3:15 Moreover God said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: "The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.….. This verse illustrates exactly what I have been saying. By reading this Hebrew text of Ex. 3:15 one not knowing better would conclude that the God of Abraham’s name was the title “Lord”, wouldn’t he? Actually the “original” Hebrew text had the “yhvh”, of which only the Almighty God, Jesus’ Father is named. The LXX changed the “yhvh” to “adonai” and what makes matters worse, is the Bible translators today admit that it should have been “Jehovah” or “Yahweh”. An interesting case in point: Julie Moore, formerly of Klamath Falls, Oregon, in a letter dated February 3, 1979, asked the NIV Bible translation committee why it did not use the Sacred Name in their translation. The committee’s executive secretary at the time, the late Edwin H. Palmer, Th.D., responded cordially and candidly: Here is why we did not: You are right that Jehovah is a distinctive name for God and ideally we should have used it. But we put 2.25 million dollars into this translation and a sure way of throwing it down the drain is to translate, for example, Psalm 23 as “Yahweh is my shepherd.” Anything I have written in this note is all documented again and again by scholars. I hope this helps Truthfinder |
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