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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | How long is a Biblical Generation ? | Gen 15:16 | Morant61 | 229173 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! Just to provide some support for your position, here are a variety of quotes from commentators on Gen. 15:16: NET Bible Commentary: "The term generation is being used here in its widest sense to refer to a full life span. When the chronological factors are considered and the genealogies tabulated, there are four hundred years of bondage. This suggests that in this context a generation is equivalent to one hundred years." K and D: "The calculations are made here on the basis of a hundred years to a generation: not too much for those times, when the average duration of life was above 150 years, and Isaac was born in the hundredth year of Abraham's life." Clarke: "n former times most people counted by generations, to each of which was assigned a term of years amounting to 20, 25, 30, 33, 100, 108, or 110; for the generation was of various lengths among various people, at different times. It is probable that the fourth generation here means the same as the four hundred years in the preceding verse." Barnes: "This age or generation ran parallel with the life of Moses, and therefore consisted of one hundred and twenty years. Joseph lived one hundred and ten years. Four such generations amount to four hundred and eighty or four hundred and forty years. From the birth of Isaac to the return to the land of promise was an interval of four hundred and forty years. Isaac, Levi, Amram, and Eleazar may represent the four ages." Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran " |
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62 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228745 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! I have been doing a lot of reading on this topic, and I'm trying to picture it in some way that would make it as easy as possible to understand. How is this for a start? There are three distinct situations that a human being can find themselves in (with the focus on the believer primarily). 1) Unregenerate 2) Regenerate 3) Glorified The first and third states are basically perfect states in that as unregenerate beings we cannot please God, while as glorified beings we cannot displease God. The second state is a conjunction of the "already/not yet" that we struggle with as Christians. We are new creations as a regenerate person. We are not the same as before. We have been set free from the slavery to sin, yet we can still choose to sin. This is where I believe the 'dead to sin' comes into play. We really are dead to sin in that it's dominion over us is broken. Yet, we still live in a human body that exists in a fallen world. As long as we walk in the Spirit, we will not sin. But, the moment we get our eyes off of Christ, we begin to act like the world again. These are just some initial thoughts as I work through these passages. Have a great day! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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63 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228743 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! A couple of questions had sprung to mind, but in fairness, I'll address your question first. In my response, I'm not reflecting on your position but simply trying to articulate how I came to my position. First of all, I always try to start with the clear statements of Scripture, not the less clear, or even my own experience. So, I begin with Rom 6:2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? This is a clear statement. In fact, our death to sin is compared and contrasted with Christ's death on the cross. When, I get to Rom. 8:11, I don't take 'reckon' or 'consider' as simply pretending that we are dead, but as a logical recognition of what Christ has done for us. So, to answer your question. I think that we all would agree that Adam and Eve were not created with a sin nature, nor were they slaves to sin in any sense of the word. Yet, they sinned. So, I would argue that someone who is no longer a slave to sin can still choose to sin. This addresses two important truths in Scriptures. One, that we truly are dead to sin. Two, that we can still sin. Well, I have to get ready for work. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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64 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228742 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! While we may disagree in how we express it, we seem to get the same point eventually. A Christian can live a holy life as long as he follows the Spirit, but if he gets his eyes off of Christ, he will fall into sin. Thanks for the explanation of where you stand my brother. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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65 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228741 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! I seldom argue with A. T. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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66 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228735 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! I apologize, I just realized that I did not complete my thought about aorist imperatives. :-) An aorist imperative does not indicate present continual action. It indicates a command, which has not yet been obeyed, without saying anything about the duration of the action. The imperative, like the optative, subjection, and future moods, is a mood of possiblity. I am assuming that this discussion on aorists relates to my understanding of Eph. 4:22-24. The aorists in Eph. 4:22-24 are infinitives, and seem to be designed to make a point. We are to "put off" the old man v. 22 (an event viewed as a whole or even completed action), and we are to "put on" the new man v. 24. If Paul had meant a continual action, then he could have simply used the present infinitive, which distinctly carries that meaning. The contrast though is stark. The 'be made new' in v. 23 is a present, passive infinitive. It clearly indicates an ongoing process done to us (or for us) by the Spirit. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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67 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228734 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! While we may not agree on every point, I commend you for an excellent and well thought out post. Allow me to highlight what we do agree on. You wrote: "In order to live a holy life I am wholly dependent on Christ and His risen power. I am wholly dependent on the Spirit. Without Him reigning in me sin will again take over the reins. " I have stated over and over again, that living without sin is only possible as long as we are led by the Spirit. So, we agree that it is possible for Christians to sin, if they cease to be led by the Spirit of God. Where we disagree is concerning the present nature of a Christian. 1) Slaves or not: You seem to take the position that believers have to natures. Allow me to ask a question. What determines which nature we will follow? 2) To sin or not to sin: Do we just reckon ourselves as dead to sin, or are we really dead to sin? We both agree that a believer can sin. It just appears that we disagree concerning the nature or natures of a believer. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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68 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228733 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! Thanks for the response! Allow me to address the present and the aorist. 1) Historical Present: We both agree that the historical present only occurs in narratives. Hence, it is usually found in the gospels. I have readily admitted that there is disagreement, even among Greek scholars about whether or not Rom. 7:14-25 is an historical present or not. My position is that it is and that this violates no rule of Greek grammar. We will just have to disagree on this point. :-) 2) Aorist: The aorist is probably the most difficult tense to understand, especially from an English perspective. In the indicative mood, it is generally used in much the same way as we would use a past tense. But, in Greek, the time of the action is not the primary focus. The kind of action is the focus. The aorist looks at the action as a whole. In the examples that you cite, there is no evidence that the aorist can be used of the present, if by present you mean present tense. Allow me to explain what I mean. The last five of your examples, all involve aorist imperatives, not aorist indicatives. (With the possible exception of John 14:15, most modern texts have future active, not an aorist imperative) There are differences between aorist imperatives and present imperatives, but that is for another post. However, aorist imperatives are in no way present tense. The first example is a little different. It is an Aorist Active Indicative verb, which is rather unusual. A. T. Robertson calls it a 'timeless aorist', while others refer to it as a gnomic aorist. The gist of it is that the Aorist here indicates something that is 'timeless' in nature. In other words, the Father has always been, and always will be, pleased with His Son. Thus, I would disagree with your statement: "These are clear examples and make plain that the aorist can be used of the present, and can be used of continual action." Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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69 | Did 2 or more enter Cannan Num14:29 | Num 14:29 | Morant61 | 228730 | ||
Greetings! I have had a chance to do a little reading, and I believe that you are correct. Great observation my friend! It appears that Caleb and Joshua were the only ones left from the census, but there could have been many more who were not counted because of tribe, age or gender. Thanks for the info! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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70 | Did 2 or more enter Cannan Num14:29 | Num 14:29 | Morant61 | 228725 | ||
Grat observation. I'll have to do some more digging. | ||||||
71 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228723 | ||
Greetings Beja! Thanks for the great questions! I have sent you an e-mail response. I'm not going to participate in this thread from here on out. Thank you for the great discussion. You are a scholar and a gentleman. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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72 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228720 | ||
Wow! Considering you know nothing about my training or experience, these are pretty broad statements. Well, I will not respond in kind, but I will not be told that I can't use my Greek knowledge either! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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73 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228719 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! 1) When did I challenge your knowledge of Greek? In my very first post on this topic, I explicitly stated that some view Rom. 7:14-25 as an historical present and some don't. I never said you were 'wrong' to hold to your view. I simply presented the evidence for why I hold mine. Please provide me with the quote where I accused you of falsely using Greek. 2) Aorist: Like the present tense, there are a wide variety of uses for the Aorist: inceptive, gnomic, ect... At it's core, the aorist tense is 'timeless', so I'm not sure if you are referring to that or to the gnomic aorist. The second aorist is a matter of form, not function, so I'm not sure what you mean on it. But, my friend, when it is appropriate, I will use my knowledge of Greek. I am no A. T. Robertson, but I spent too many years studying Greek simply to never refer to it again. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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74 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228713 | ||
Thanks EdB! If you get a chance, check out that book that I recommended: Five Views of Sanctification Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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75 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228712 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! You said: "You can't play fast and loose with tenses in one Scripture and then cite them rigidly in another. That is exegetical cheating." I have been very polite in my discussions with you, so I don't understand why you are making two false assertions about me. I did not play fast or loose with the rules of grammar concerning the possibility of an historical present in Rom. 7:14-24. If you don't accept that interpretation, fine! But, don't pretend that I have violated some rule of grammar if I hold to that position. Secondly, you keep stressing the meaning of tenses. If you have been through Greek training, then you certainly understand the the major force of the tenses in Greek is the kind of action involved, not the time of the action. The aorist involves point of time action. You will not find any Greek scholar who would argue that Eph. 4:22 or Eph. 4:25 indicates an ongoing action. If you don't agree with my points, fine! But, please do not falsely accuse me of exegetical cheating. It has been my experience that when one is unable to deal with the facts, then the discussion turns personal. Let's keep it our discussion on the facts my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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76 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228711 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! I have had years of training in Greek, so I am aware of what the grammatical rules are. So, rather than continuing to debate the point, I would simply urge the readers of these posts to do a little research themselves concerning the historical present and make of their own minds. Thanks for the discussion my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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77 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228710 | ||
Greetings EdB! This falls under the category of total depravity. Not every sinner will commit every sin for a number of reasons: personality, courage, opportunity, ect... But, a sinner is not able to live up to God's standard, while a believer is able to do so. Will he? It depends on a number of things. Does that believer saturate his heart and mind with God's Word? Does that believer prayerfully seek God's direction in everything he does? Does that believer listen to and obey the leading of the Spirit of God? If he does, then he will not sin. If he does not, then he could sin, but that sin will be contrary to his new nature, not because of it. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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78 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228705 | ||
Greetings Beja! Allow me to response to the two Scriptures you cite: 1) Gal. 5:16-17: Are these verse really describing a conflict? Verse 16 makes a very clear statement of fact. If you live by the Spirit, you WILL NOT gratify the desires of the sinful nature. Now, how does v. 17 fit into the picture? Are we to understand that the flesh sometimes wins out over the Spirit of God? Or, is the verse saying that the Spirit wins our over the flesh? I believe the latter. God is sovereign and all-powerful. I can't believe for a minute that my sinful nature could win out in a conflict against the third Person of the Godhead. 2) Eph. 4:20-24: This is an excellent passage, but neither does this passage indicate a struggle. The verbs 'put off' and 'put on' are Aorist infinitives, which indicate a one time action, not an ongoing one. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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79 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228704 | ||
Greetings Biblicalman! You wrote: "Thus people may disagree about what Paul actually means in Romans 7. What they CANNOT do if they take Scripture seriously is ignore the basic rule of grammar when interpreting it. For there are no grounds for doing so apart from the fact that it does not agree with your position." But, in your previous post, you wrote: "As with anyone who seeks to establish rules concerning a language I do it on the basis of usage. No language has a list of rules." So, I am confused. How can I violate a rule that doesn't exist. :-) But, rather than beat a dead horse, I will bow out at this point. There is no grammatical reason why Rom. 7:14-25 cannot be an historical present. You don't feel that it is, and I do feel that it is. I have enjoyed the conversation my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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80 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | Morant61 | 228691 | ||
Part III Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; (20) idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions (21) and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. Yet, Christians are told: Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. What boggles my mind is that many commentaries (not all), argue that the sin nature is still alive even though it has been crucified. Yet, Paul makes it abundantly clear what he means. Consider the following: Col 2:11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, Vincent says of this verse: "The fleshly circumcision removed only a portion of the body. In spiritual circumcision, through Christ, the whole corrupt, carnal nature is put away like a garment which is taken off and laid aside." So, Scripture is clear that the power of the sinful nature has been destroyed, but apparently we can empower it again by choosing to make our selves slaves to it. Thus, Scripture says: Rom 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Rom 13:14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 1Pe 1:14-15 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. (15) But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; My conclusion can only be that it is possible to sin or not to sin as a Christian. We can choose to live according to the Spirit or according to the flesh. But, we are commanded to live according to the Spirit. I hope these posts answer your question my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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