Results 461 - 480 of 575
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Results from: Notes Author: jlpangilinan Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
461 | Where did the Holy Spirit go? | 2 Cor 5:21 | jlpangilinan | 83219 | ||
Are you saying that the spirit exist in Jesus is the same spirit that God the Father has. I know we already argue in this matter, in our previous discussion you cannot prove to me that this three are equal, if they have only one spirit meaning Christ is praying to Himself and they could ne equal but the Bible said they are not equal. You are right that John 10:38 say "that the Father is in Me," but He did not say that the "the Father is also I am" or "I Am the Father" God bless, |
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462 | Where did the Holy Spirit go? | 2 Cor 5:21 | jlpangilinan | 83342 | ||
Tim, Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. That verse is the argument of jews tried to kill him because they think that Christ making himself equal with God. But did Christ really make himself equal with God the Father? NO! Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. If they are really equal, why God the Father need to give these things to Jesus Christ. Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; If they are really equal the Father need not to gave that things Jesus because they are eqaul, Christ must have that power already even God the Father not give it to Him. Which is powerful the giver or the receipent? God bless, |
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463 | Where did the Holy Spirit go? | 2 Cor 5:21 | jlpangilinan | 83366 | ||
Ray, Here we go again, I will go back to our trinitarian argument before. Father, Christ, Holy Spirit equal in one God head. Mr 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. If they really equal what happened to the two co-equal of one God head forget the information of Jesus Christ? "neither the Son" who is the Son Jesus Christ, now is this Father-Son relationship expire NO! He said but the Father, not Jesus Christ, not the Holy Spirit. If they are equal I am sure the information that only the Father knows was also knew by the other two, but Christ said "but the Father" God bless, |
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464 | Where did the Holy Spirit go? | 2 Cor 5:21 | jlpangilinan | 83425 | ||
Tim, Did Jesus really made Himself equal to God? Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. In Joh 5:17 ¶ But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Jesus Christ just telling them that God the Father is His Father and not telling them that "I am equal to my Father" Christ told them that His Father is the God the Father and jews dont believed it. But, did Christ really made Himself equal to His Father? Joh 14:28 ¶ Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. God bless, |
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465 | Where did the Holy Spirit go? | 2 Cor 5:21 | jlpangilinan | 83426 | ||
Ray, I dont think this will go with my co-equal argument. I dont think that passages you quoted will prove that Jesus is equal with His Father. God bless, |
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466 | Where did the Holy Spirit go? | 2 Cor 5:21 | jlpangilinan | 83433 | ||
Kindly show me the passages that will stated that they are equal after His ressurection, or on before He was born as a man. God bless, |
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467 | Where did the Holy Spirit go? | 2 Cor 5:21 | jlpangilinan | 83497 | ||
Tim, So did Jesus lied when saying this? Did the author of the same book out of his mind writing opposite claim? I hope so! Joh 14:28 ¶ Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I God bless, |
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468 | Where did the Holy Spirit go? | 2 Cor 5:21 | jlpangilinan | 83506 | ||
Tim, I will go back to that equality issue, Christ never said that they are equal. Mr 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Christ mentioned here "not the angels neither the son but the Father" My question to you now? who is the son? it is Christ right. When he ressurected do you think He is not the Son anymore? He is still the son. As I post in my previous posts the Holy Spirit also dont know the information because Christ said "but the Father" "My Father Only" So what equality is that. Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. Christ said "neither he that is sent greater that sent him" Who is sent by the Father? it is Christ. Do you think this was change after He ressurected NO! If I ask anyone who is sent by the Father it is Christ no one can change that. Christ was sent by the Father and the Father who sent Him. So Father is Greater than He sent which is Jesus. God bless, |
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469 | Where did the Holy Spirit go? | 2 Cor 5:21 | jlpangilinan | 83520 | ||
The verse that you quaoted I did not see words that says Jesus and the Father are equal. It is the Father given Him all things, if they are equal the Father need not to give things that Christ already has: Who is the powerful the giver or the reciepient? Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; 1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Who gave him the name above everyname and for whom glory? For the Glory of the Father? Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. God bless |
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470 | Did Jesus Christ break the Law of MOSES? | 2 Cor 9:1 | jlpangilinan | 13914 | ||
Thank you very much, but my discussion with Steve is not because of that reason. We start this Topic about tithing. I hope you know how this topic did start. I also answered the question to of how Jesus Christ fulfill the law according to what He mentioned in Mt. 5:17-19. Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Johnny |
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471 | Did Jesus Christ break the Law of MOSES? | 2 Cor 9:1 | jlpangilinan | 14350 | ||
Steve, Thanks for your time, it is not my own choice, the teaching of our church is love offering, we are one of the few churches that taught those kind of doctrines. Our leader for example, He build a convention center worth 500M for the church from his own money. He encourage us to help him if we can give if we have nothing to give its okay. |
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472 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22152 | ||
Prayon, Me the same as you mention, I am also a tithe giver, we observe that. Even my parents I've ask them to give tithe correctly because It was taught to us of our pastor. They always use Mal 3:10 Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. I am not saying that this verse is wrong it is truly right. But of course we have to consider time and event when we are reading the scriptures. As all we know it was address to the decendants of Jacob if you read Mal. 3:6 Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. But when Jesus Christ crusified we free from all this things. Ac 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. As you mentioned you always been taught to give 10 percent of your earnings, but try those points that I mentioned to you. Maybe you can ask those to your pastors, then if you got a valid answer from him please share it to me. I am open to my believed prayon, if someone can explain to me that tithe is really the requirement so we can go to heaven I will accept that teaching again. Thank you, Johnny |
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473 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22154 | ||
Charis, I would like share with you some of our doctrine in our church. It was the head of our church who discourage us not to give tithe but love offering. He is the one taught us that tithe is no longer the requirements of giving. Our head of the church set as the a live example to us. He built a convention center for our church worth more than 20 million dollars in equivalent. He source the found from his own pocket considering that this convention center registered as the property of the church. When the time come that he can no longer sustain the funds because its too big for him, he asked help from us if how much we can help him because he has no money to finish the building. We contribute not all of us with no required amount. Some of us gave big and some other not give at all because they cannot afford, but it is okay. Now we have that convention center. It is the head of our church who taught us not to give tithe but love offering. It is not me or any member of our church who are not willing to gave. I am not saying that you mentioned that I am the one who dont want to give, Just explain in my own case. If you want me to try explain that believed in this forum, I will try to do so with a passages supporting to it. Thank you Johnny |
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474 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22159 | ||
Charis, The convention center is not just for our local church i am sorry not to mentioned, it was our national covention center. All local church meet thier if they can. If we have a big celebration or whatsoever we held it on that convention center so we can accomodate more people like visitors and observer. In addition, inside that convention center has a small hospital that accomadate person cannot pay amount in the hospital. This convention center also open for the people victims of flood or storm if they dont have place to go. (it is open to member or non-member of the church) Meaning we built it in purpose of course. To those gave big amount just to finish that building they are motivated to gave because the saw the effort of our founder to have that convention center. As a matter of fact our founder sold many of his own property just to fund that convention center. To finish the story, our founder asking us to help him it was almost finish may 10 percent of the building was not yet finish. Meaning it was the 10 percent of the said 20 million we are tried to source at the time. |
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475 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22161 | ||
Charis, I agree on that on your cases, but of course my answer is based on the bible. When Apostle paul taught to to the gentiles he take nothing from them. That really I admire apoetle paul what He said is: 2Co 12:13 For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong. 2Co 12:14 Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. If the pastors really want to serve people in Jesus name they must observe what apostle paul did. And they must prepared for the cirscumstances. Again, The head of our church (sorry for mentioning "head" we know really that the HEAD of the church is Jesus) try to expand his own source of income in order to provide needs of our churce i.e free bible for the observer and other things. All of our pastor (although we call them brothers and sisters) has his own Job and source of income (maybe yours also do the same) Charis, just to tell you the truth income of our church from the love offering cannot sustain the needs of our church, here our head of the church extend thier effort just to sustain it. It truly the love for people. Thier not complaining, of course there are sometime that they can no longer shoulder it they call us for help, like what I mentioned to you the convention center. Charis, I am not really saying that giving is wrong but my stand is tithe is really not a requirement, and it cannot justify us, as mention in the Holy scriptures. In addition if we are really observe the the tithe which is included in the law of moses we must observe all the laws that included thier otherwise we are not consistent. Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. According to Jesus Christ in that verse, we have to be consistent. Thanks for very nice discussion, God bless, Johnny |
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476 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22241 | ||
Charis, That is why it was mentioned in the scriptures that God loves cheerful giver. If are willing or happy with your setup of giving it is okay. If we really read the scriptures it is not the giver was made the mistake but those who requires to the members to give. Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. If you can give more than 10 percent of your income it is okay but again it is not a requirements. Apostle Paul gave to the church all he got in life, he got no wife because he dedicate all of his time to serve God, he gave even his life to serve people in the glory of Jesus Christ. If we put this discussion into a pure biblical, I know you would agree, Apostle Paul gave his everything to serve people to the Glory of God but he never required anyone to give thier tithe but a guidance that God love cheerful giver. If somebody can show me that Jesus Christ taught any single word or is He required his disciple to give thier tithe, then I would agree that tithe is a requirements. Please dont get rid of me, Again thanks for a nice discussion. Johnny |
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477 | Where is the line? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22249 | ||
Hi Debbie, Thanks to your answer, if we really looking for a guideline why we have to create our own guideline. In the new testament Jesus Christ and His deciples gave us the guideline of giving which is love offering. I know that tithe is right in the time of Moses until Jesus Christ was born as human being. He made Himself a living sacrifice to free us our sins. He gave us spirit of Christianity; love, grace,charity and other good things. Jesus Christ only can justify us and not the law of Moses, I know you would agree on that. If the law of moses cannot justify that why we keep doing the things that cannot justified us which is tithe. It is not mean that we are not going to give, but there is a new guideline how to do it. If we observe one part of the law why not observing it at all. Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. If we read that passages, it will tell us that we have to be consistent. If you observe law of tithing you must observe other things that include in to it. Why we are ready to exclude all of the law of Moses, but we cannot include tithe to them what is it in the tithe that we cannot give up? Debbie, my believed is open, if anyone can show me that Jesus taught tithe or required His deciple to give thier tithes, I am ready to embrace that teaching again. In addition, if the tithe is really a requirement Jesus Christ is the first one who going do it as an example. He made himself an example when he required himself to be baptized by John because it is important to be baptize, and baptism is including in His teaching. What I really mean is if tithe is really the requirements why Jesus Christ himself did not required himsef to be an example like what He did when He asked john to baptise Him. God bless, Johnny |
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478 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22250 | ||
Yes Debbie, I hope all of us will keep that in mind. We know that we just exchanging toughts of how we understand teaching. Thanks, Johnny |
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479 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22254 | ||
Yes Charis, if somebody can show that it was taught by Jesus Christ I am ready to embrace that teaching again. Do you? I think it is not right to say that if you are not willing to give tithes you not a giver at all. There is a guidelines. "Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." What is wrong with that passages if we are not going to observe that? I am not saying that I am not willing to give, but tithe is not a requirements. Charis, if you want me to agree that tithe is a requirements, just show me a single word that He required His desciple to gave thier tithes to Him. Or you can show me that Jesus Christ made himself as an Example by fulfiling it. If the tithe really is a requirements I know that Jesus Christ will made Himself as an example by doing it. Baptism would you agree is important, Jesus Christ made himself an example when He required himself to be baptized by John. We all would agree that He dont do it for his own salvation (Because He is son of God all things created trough Him and By Him)but to show us how important it is. I think my argument is very simple, just show me those things, and I would agree. Thanks for your time, God bless, Johnny |
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480 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22277 | ||
Hi charis, I hope you are not get rid in this discussion. I am interested with your statement in your last note. I am not sure why you have this focus on the 'legality' of the tithe. It is not a legal thing at all! Personally, I don't think it ever was, even in the Old Testament. I would share with you (if you are interested) the explaination regarding tithe in the Old testament. Tithe a tenth of the produce of the earth consecrated and set apart for special purposes. The dedication of a tenth to God was recognized as a duty before the time of Moses. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (Ge 14:20; Heb 7:6); and Jacob vowed unto the Lord and said, "Of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee." The first Mosaic law on this subject is recorded in Le 27:30-32. Subsequent legislation regulated the destination of the tithes (Nu 18:21-24,26-28; De 12:5-6,11,17; 14:22-23). The paying of the tithes was an important part of the Jewish religious worship. In the days of Hezekiah one of the first results of the reformation of religion was the eagerness with which the people brought in their tithes (2Ch 31:5-6). The neglect of this duty was sternly rebuked by the prophets (Am 4:4; Mal 3:8-10). It cannot be affirmed that the Old Testament law of tithes is binding on the Christian Church, nevertheless the principle of this law remains, and is incorporated in the gospel (1Co 9:13-14); and if, as is the case, the motive that ought to prompt to liberality in the cause of religion and of the service of God be greater now than in Old Testament times, then Christians outght to go beyond the ancient Hebrew in consecrating both themselves and their substance to God. Every Jew was required by the Levitical law to pay three tithes of his property (1) one tithe for the Levites; (2) one for the use of the temple and the great feasts; and (3) one for the poor of the land. 1. It was mention there that"a tenth of the produce of the earth consecrated and set apart for special purposes. The dedication of a tenth to God was recognized as a duty before the time of Moses" 2.The paying of the tithes was an important part of the Jewish religious worship. 3. The neglect of this duty was sternly rebuked by the prophets (Am 4:4; Mal 3:8-10). 4. Every Jew was required by the Levitical law to pay three tithes of his property. With those statement I dont think your right when said that it is not a legal thing for the Jewish Religion. It was really a requirements. In addition, Mr 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. 42. Mr 12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: This widow that mentioned of Jesus Christ I am sure she's not giving the tithe, it was love offering. An there is no requirements there or guideline how much she can give, there is no guideline that she have to gave 10 percent 20 percent or any percent. This is really what I mean of a guidelines of Giving. I hope you get my point. God bless, Johnny |
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