Results 21 - 40 of 84
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Heaven or hell predetermined? | Eph 1:11 | lightedsteps | 223173 | ||
Hi doc Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. (Ephesians 1:3-6 NASB) Having many years ago completed a very careful, and concise exegesis of these very same verses, I clearly found, and have believed the same ever since that time. Ephesians 1:3-6 Is speaking only about Christians, and their having been chosen by God, according to the good pleasure of His will. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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22 | Heaven or hell predetermined? | Eph 1:11 | lightedsteps | 223157 | ||
Hi again Brad In your first post ( 223112 ) you made a statement. "Ephesians does speak of us (believers) being chosen" You made this statement as a point of fact, or absolute truth, without any room for any possible error, and that anybody reading them would automatically come to the same conclusion as you have, then using Eph.1:4,5 as your proof. I am asking for nothing more than what your understanding of these verses are, and why you believe the posting of them would speak so profoundly, that they would give me a full understanding of how you have come to the conclusion you have, causing you, to make your statement as you did. In order for any meaningful discussion to take place, I needed to know where you were coming from, therefore I asked what I thought to be a reasonable question, your interpretation of these verses, so I could fully understand your thoughts. The short time I have been part of this forum, I have come to the conclusion, it is upon the person making statements, to fully expound on them, by stating their beliefs, and why, using scripture in support of said beliefs, not just by making a statement, and posting scripture without any explanation. If these two scriptures you posted, were so straightforward in meaning, being self explanatory, I would not have had no need to ask for your interpretation of them. You have come to a conclusion about them, and I am curious as to what your thoughts on them are. I could not possibly come to your point of view, unless I know in advance, just what that point of view is can I? Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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23 | Heaven or hell predetermined? | Eph 1:11 | lightedsteps | 223154 | ||
Brother Brad Please forgive the delay in responding to your post. I would ask, what in your opinion would be the correct "Interpretation" of these two verses? What should I be seeing, that you so readily see, and understand? I believe we may have differing views on these verses. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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24 | Heaven or hell predetermined? | Eph 1:11 | lightedsteps | 223122 | ||
Brother Beja According to the verses you have used, there is a remnant, (Rom.11:1-6). You are right again when you say God chose them by his grace. You are correct, God is sovereign, and the election is purely by grace. No argument from me:-) What you have just posted Rom.11:1-6 which is talking about the Jews of that time, the remnant which is being spoken of are clearly the Jewish believers, which are identified in Rom.11:5,7, therefore this passage of scripture doesn't then apply to us of today, in other words "WE" are not the remnant spoken of in these passages, they were. There was a specific point being made by Paul about the Jews in this chapter wasn't there? There are only two verses in the New Test. speaking of a remnant, both are speaking of the Jewish believers Rom.9:27, and Rom.11:5. You are right once more, nowhere does Paul say, STOP, WAIT HOLD IT you are misunderstanding me ! ! So I will, stop, wait, hold it, you are misunderstanding me. Here again is my original statement. "However even Ephesians 1:4-6 does not speak of a remnant, chosen by His own counsel, before creation, for salvation. As a matter of fact, I can't find anywhere in scripture where it does say what you have just espoused." Please correct me if I am wrong, in grammar, the use of the word (remnant), denotes that there was originally a whole, therefore a remnant would then constitute only a small part of that whole, would it not? At this point I have to say, if the statement which was made, was made with the broadest possible understanding ie, that all Christians for the last two thousand years, constitute only a remnant of all of the people ever created, then I would have to concur with this belief also. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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25 | Heaven or hell predetermined? | Eph 1:11 | lightedsteps | 223109 | ||
Hi Doc You are putting forward a belief, that the passage you use, does not speak to. Isaiah 40:12-14 only addresses the sovereignty of God, which is not in question. In your saying: "God always has a remnant: persons that He specifically has chosen by His own counsel Isaiah 40:12-14), before creation, for salvation" I fully understand that the use of these verses, are to give credence, or a validity for your overall statement, which infers a predestination of salvation. However even the Ephesians verses, do not speak of a remnant chosen by His own counsel, before creation, for salvation. As a matter of fact, I can't find anywhere in scripture where it does say what you have just espoused. Although Ephesians 2:8 does say we are saved by grace, it does not go so far as to say, we are chosen by His own counsel, before creation, therefore I see the use of your two quotes, and your placing of them in conjunction with one another, only as one possible interpretation of the scriptures as you have used, and understand them to be. I therefore would like to place into the record of this thread, for future readers of this thread another allegory, which gives another possible interpretation. Using (Ephesians 1:4-6) Here is another analogy: Imagine a woman going to an open air market to get some apples. Finding them, she tells the grocer, I want 5 lbs. he chooses at random, enough apples to fill the order, all of the same quality, all of which have blemishes. To the woman, it is irrelevant which of the apples are chosen to be put into the bag, because she had predetermined before leaving the house, that the apples she was going to buy, only had to fill one criteria, and that criteria being, they were apples, because she was going to transform these apples, making them all into something special, so then, through this transformation process, she took away every blemish, no matter how bad the blemish might be, all of the apples were going to be conformed into a pie. Thereby they would not resemble their former estate. Take note that the woman did not predetermine each of the apples she wanted to buy before going to the market, but she did predetermine, that after paying the required price for them, each and every apple that she would buy, would go through a transformation, regardless of how bad a blemish it might have, that through her love, they would all become acceptable in the pie. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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26 | Can a congragent hear form God ? | Jer 33:3 | lightedsteps | 223025 | ||
Hi Doc Maybe you should re-read my post I did not say he did, to the contrary. I said "he is "NOT" endued with special hearing powers" Post I.D. 223010 Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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27 | The Heavenly Kingdom of God | Rom 6:4 | lightedsteps | 222979 | ||
Salvation is a repentance of works, but man has not to glory, this repentance is of Gods' doing, provided him before the foundations of the earth ever were, provided through His glorious Grace, provided in the life of His beloved Son, Turning away from his life in the flesh, turning toward God, this new life appears in the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit, Becoming the Righteousness of God in Christ, Sanctified, Justified, and Redeemed, thereby being conformed to the image of His Son Moving along a path, illumined by God, the child being led by the hand to the promised land, "The Heavenly Kingdom of God." |
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28 | believeth and is baptized | Mark 16:16 | lightedsteps | 222947 | ||
Hi Searcher56 Could you please clarify these statements. When you say 1) "Baptism never saves." - - - True 2) "Today, most churches delay." - - - This is also true. 3) "While we delay baptism, we allow one to take the Lord's Supper right away" - - - True again 4) "Thou Paul warns about if we do it wrong." While the 3 statements of yours are all true, you never say, just what it is that you believe Baptism does give us. Although in your number 3,4 statements you do allude to some special significance assigned to Baptism. If Baptism does not afford us anything, why then should those that are not Baptized, be excluded from communion? Why then in your opinion is today's practice wrong? In our attempting to answer the question of whether or not Baptism saves, the best arguments against Baptismal Salvation, would be the scriptures themselves, which describe just what we do attain from Baptism, thereby nullifying any clams that (Baptism does indeed Save). Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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29 | believeth and is baptized | Mark 16:16 | lightedsteps | 222937 | ||
Hi srbaegon As you can see I have finished with the discussion, but seeing that you were the first to respond, I felt it befitting that you be the last that I would address. I thank you for your information, and it was not my intent to offend you in any way. I read the article you put the link for, it was interesting. Let me see if I can clarify better to you my feelings as this should be the last post on the matter, you are entitled to at least that. My saying a trivializing was in reference to the statements made by Viola and Barna 1) In our day, the "sinner's prayer" has replaced the role of water baptism as the initial confession of faith. 2) Unbelievers are told, "Say this prayer after me, accept Jesus as your personal Savior, and you will be saved." 3) But nowhere in all the New Testament do we find any person being led to the Lord by a sinner's prayer. And there is not the faintest whisper in the Bible about a "personal" Savior. 4) Instead, unbelievers in the first century were led to Jesus Christ by being taken to the waters of baptism. 5) Put another way, water baptism was the sinner's prayer in century one! 6) Baptism accompanied the acceptance of the gospel. So what I was seeing were 6 times they put Baptism into a ritualistic catagory. I am sorry, but I take that whole statement of theirs, as a trivializing of Baptism itself, as well as scripture. Maybe I am being to critical, but that is the way I see it. They have, through there comparison with the sinners prayer, put them both into the same category of things that Christians do that have no meaning. I have to say there is meaning in Baptism. Rom 6:3-6 3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. That is my meaning of the trivialization, because baptism was a mandate from Jesus, unlike the sinners prayer. I did go on further in my first post to you, with my explanation by saying. "based on the grounds that this understanding does not explain the passage, it merely negates it, putting it into the realm of not meaning what it actually said." I regret the way I phrased my statement, it was not directed toward you. Hoping I have managed to be more succinct this time. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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30 | believeth and is baptized | Mark 16:16 | lightedsteps | 222932 | ||
Hi BradK Thanks for the input, but to quell any misconception that may have arisen, I am not of the school that espouses, that our salvation comes any other way other than through the blood of Jesus for the remission of sins. For by Grace are we saved. I can assure you, I do not base my doctrine of salvation upon such verses as Mk.16:16 All I was asking, was for some reasonable explanation, as to how it is to be understood, how can it be explained, and all I was getting was. It doesn't belong, or what was said isn't what was meant, or it's an addendum to a book that isn't accredited to the person who did write it, by a person or persons unknown, and therefore not to be accepted as any part of the canon of scripture. So I felt before any further misconceptions, I would withdraw from the discussion. But I owed you some sort of explanation, hope it will suffice. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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31 | believeth and is baptized | Mark 16:16 | lightedsteps | 222927 | ||
Hi Inquisitor Sorry but I don't think Matt.28:19 can be connected to Mk.16:16. You say "There's over 80 verses in the Bible that refer to this subject. I agree some of them are a little vague but most are pretty clear." my advice Copy, and paste them all onto one place, where you can read, and compare them all at the asme time, and against each other. Having doen that, then start the process of elimination, being very critical as to just what is being said, if it doesn't stand muster then deleat it. Don't worry about convincing anybody else, Convince yourself, or Unconvince yourself. Let the Holy Spirit teach you. At this point you have a belief, find out if that belief is true or not. You need to be able to see the forest, not the indevidual trees. These 80 some verses need to agree or there is no truth. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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32 | believeth and is baptized | Mark 16:16 | lightedsteps | 222926 | ||
Hi Doc I hope you aren't of the mind, that I would be remiss in the doing my utmost in the fulfilling of Eph.4:29 also. I think your assessment of my meaning to be found within Rom., and Col. would be fair, I do feel as though they are representative of the doing something in the natural, which then in turn is capable of causing a supernatural result. This is not saying, our doing causes the result, it is all Gods doing. Our place is to follow those things He has said to do, the result then will follow the actions He has said they would follow. I too can say, I thoughtfully, carefully, studiously, assuredly, and completely agree: with The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy. I am curious as to what you might think, on just what my particular theological slant might be? I take great care about what I say, here on the forum. I make every effort to say authoritatively what God has, using scripture whenever, and wherever possible. My efforts on the forum are a service to Him. Our modes of operation my differ, but our goals are still the same. We both come from diametrically opposed backgrounds, yours being Jewish, mine being Catholic. We both have a unique perspective that not all Christians have, with their having been raised with a more, or less Protestant background. All I can say is, were both on the same path, God is lighting the way, because of our differing backgrounds, there are things you will accept that I won't, and there are things that I will accept that you won't, neither one is wrong in our beliefs, we just have differing perspectives. In closing, I apologies for my affront, your right, I should have known:-( Are we still friends:-) If your e-mail address on your profile is still valid, I will drop you a line. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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33 | believeth and is baptized | Mark 16:16 | lightedsteps | 222922 | ||
Hi Doc Always good to hear from you You cite 3 reasons for believing this verse does not belong. 1. It is absent from most of the earliest manuscripts. 2. Early church writers tell us that it is absent from many other manuscripts. 3. There are stylistic aspects of this passage that are not in keeping with the rest of the book. As far as I am concerned, I believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of God to the Church, mind you I said Church, as the mystical body of Christ, not any religion, I also believe that this inerrancy extends as far as the canon itself, as well as the writers of the books, I do not in any way believe that anything having to do with the Bible is not what it appears to be. Therefore I take with a grain of spiritual salt, what New Testament scholars might have to say on the matter. Others have said the book of Mark was actually written by Peter. If we took what they all say now, or have said in the past, all we would have left of our Bibles, would be a very nice piece of leather, (with our name embossed on it in gold). I may sound old fashioned, but I have to believe the canon we have received, is the one that GOD wanted us to have. I'm sorry but when it comes to belief, just because someone has a Phd, or Ma. after their name, I still question their findings, (teachings). We have been warned in the Bible about False teachers, when I hear of such things, I question the motive for such statements. What I mean is, do these teachings edify the reader, or do they make the reader, question the Bible text as true or not? (example) Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Once the doubt has been raised, then any belief is possible. We can become to sophisticated in our beliefs, when God meant His word to be understood by the simplest of men. When you said "After all, doing something in the natural and expecting supernatural results has a name: magic -- and we are told to eschew such things." I know you didn't mean these such things did you? Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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34 | believeth and is baptized | Mark 16:16 | lightedsteps | 222913 | ||
Hi srbaegon Thanks for the reply, I read the article, interesting. Although I have not read the book you have mentioned, I can see where someone as yourself that was leaning in that direction to begin with, would easily accept the explanation which you say was put forward by these two men. So is it your contention, that when the disciples went about baptizing, according to what Jesus had said to them, in Mk.16:16 they were performing these baptisms, as nothing more than what could be called ones Christian Confession of Faith, such as today's (Sinners Prayer), with no more meaning than a ritual? Isn't that trivializing the Mk.16:16 passage, based on the grounds that this understanding does not explain the passage, it merely negates it, putting it into the realm of not meaning what it actually said. By keeping the passage in sight, I cannot see where it would apply, although I can understand that human nature being what it is, through the course of time, things do tend to lose their meaning. I had no idea when asking the question, it was such a hotly contested verse. I guess the only way of understanding the Mark passage, would be summed up in another verse. Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. When it comes down to it, there are differences of opinion as to the meaning of what was meant in Mk. 16:16, these opinions come from ones own believed doctrine, some would say one thing, while others would counter with an opposite opinion. Maybe that is the way God wanted things to be, Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Thanks again for the input. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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35 | chould a preacher question peoples chris | 2 Cor 13:5 | lightedsteps | 222854 | ||
Greetings CDBJ From the sound of your post, you do not agree with, or see the need for the practice of churches having alter calls. But be that as it may, when it comes to the over all point of your question, I am at a loss, what is the relation of your question and my post? I made no definitive statement pro, or con regarding this well worn tradition. Therefore I am at a loss, as to why you would ask my opinion on the matter? Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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36 | sins of the father | Bible general Archive 4 | lightedsteps | 222837 | ||
Hi Doc It seems as though we are at crossed purposes. Your answer is in relation to the corporate, (Nation). I am answering the question as asked, which was in the singular. The question asked was "i think it says about the sins being carried through generations" Therefore I feel as though the answer I gave while being out of context to the Nations complaint, Gods answer to them was in a singular context. Eze 18:20 - Deut. 24:16 God is Sovereign, even though He judges each man for his own actions, He can still judge the nation as a whole. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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37 | IS IT POSSIBLE TO ATTAIN THE RIGHTOUSNES | Rom 5:1 | lightedsteps | 222773 | ||
Hi WENDYFAYE We are told in the bible that our righteousness, is as filthy rags. Therefore we can never stand before God in our own righteousness. Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. The righteousness we seek is, the righteousness of God through Christ, and this righteousness shall be upon all them that believe, that Christ's fulfilling of the law might be attributed to us also Rom 3:20-22 20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. So being in Christ, we stand in His righteousness, having been been made righteousness unto us, that we who believe may attain eternal life through Him. 1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. So then as you can see, it is the righteousness of Christ in which we stand, we gain His righteousness upon our Conversion (Salvation, Rebirth, Regeneration). Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Grace be unto you Lightedsteps |
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38 | sins of the father | Bible general Archive 4 | lightedsteps | 222718 | ||
lionheart Good day to you, please excuse the delay, and thanks for your input:-) In your saying "But how often have the consequences of ones sin impacted the lives of others." Yes people all the time, do end up holding the bag for the things other people have done, but that isn't quite the point is it? The question that was originally asked, was about generational sins, not there consequences. In other words, the children will commit the same sins of the parents, as a generational curse. IMHO the generational sins now under discussion, do not exist. Hypothetical: Two brothers, and one sister grow up in a family where the father is an alcoholic, and abuses the mother, these children see this abuse take place on a regular basis, when these three children are grown, getting married themselves, one brother drinks, and abuses his wife just as his father had done, the second brother does not drink or abuse his wife, but the sister, finds herself being abused like her mother was. So then if the sin of spousal abuse is passed on to the children in a generational curse, to the third and the fourth generation. Should not the curse pass on to all the children, or is this type of curse selective? Why would one brother be a drunk, and abuse, and the other not? Lastly what is the sin the sister is committing by being the one abused? Isn't this nothing more than, the learned behavior of two children observing, but then again the second brother having observed the same things,"CHOSE" to not drink, or abuse. Therefore in such things we do have a choice, there is no generational curse, it is nothing more than the fallen human nature, and learned behavior. Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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39 | sins of the father | Bible general Archive 4 | lightedsteps | 222714 | ||
Hi Doc So then what you are saying is. These verses, really don't mean what they are saying? Eze.18:20 20) (THE SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL DIE. THE SON SHALL NOT BEAR THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHER, NEITHER SHALL THE FATHER BEAR THE INIQUITY OF THE SON: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Deut. 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Where then is the scripture or scriptures, that supercede, or nullify what these do say? Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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40 | Jesus time in Hell | 1 Pet 3:18 | lightedsteps | 221533 | ||
Hi Bradk first you say "There is simply nothing in scripture to support the notion that Jesus went to Hell" I concur with your assessment, but where then were the souls of the dead from Adam, to Christ while awaiting judgement, other than (The Bosom of Abraham) (Hell, Hades, Sheol) Was there a holding place of separation for those before Christ, for lack of a better word - (Hell). Then you post 1 Peter 3:19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison Matt. 27:52, 53, 52) The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53) and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. "It says nothing about Him going to Hell. We don't know exactly where He went". Again I have to concur with you. Where then was this prison, where Jesus made this proclamation to those spirits? The word being used is, (Prison) which infers some place, and some form of punishment, even if it is only separation. Then the tombs which were opened, where were those spirits being held until Christ? Another controversial scripture that goes with 1 Pet. 3:19 Eph. 4:9 Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? Peter also speaks in Acts 2:27, in relation to the Psalm of David 16:10,11 Acts 2:27 Because you will not abandon my soul to Hades, nor allow your Holy One to undergo decay. These three places in scripture from Paul, Peter and David, speak of the lower parts of the earth, and His soul in Hades. If the principal we are to follow is, that we interpret the unclear passages of scripture, from those that are clear, where then are the clear passages you speak of? Grace be unto you lightedsteps |
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