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Results from: Notes Author: Truthfinder Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87522 | ||
Well, hi Tim, Since elohim/theos means a mighty one, anything that is venerated, anything that is honored, how can you say Jesus is not "a god" (an honored one, a venerated one). Certainly he is. Also, truth dictates that the true God is not omnipresent, for he is spoken of as having a location. (1Ki 8:49; Joh 16:28; Heb 9:24) His throne is in heaven. (Isa 66:1) He is all-powerful, being the Almighty God. (Ge 17:1; Re 16:14) “All things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him,” and he is “the One telling from the beginning the finale.” (Heb 4:13; Isa 46:10, 11; 1Sa 2:3) His power and knowledge extend everywhere, reaching every part of the universe.—2Ch 16:9; Ps 139:7-12; Am 9:2-4 You wrote: "the Scriptures themselves are quite clear" then why the controversy? IF THE Trinity were true, it should be clearly and consistently presented in the Bible. Why? Because, as the apostles affirmed, the Bible is God’s revelation of himself to mankind. And since we need to know God to worship him acceptably, the Bible should be clear in telling us just who he is. First-century believers accepted the Scriptures as the authentic revelation of God. It was the basis for their beliefs, the final authority. For example, when the apostle Paul preached to people in the city of Beroea, “they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.”—Acts 17:10, 11. What did prominent men of God at that time use as their authority? Acts 17:2, 3 tells us: “According to Paul’s custom . . . he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving by references [from the Scriptures].” Jesus himself set the example in using the Scriptures as the basis for his teaching, repeatedly saying: “It is written.” “He interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the Scriptures.”—Matthew 4:4, 7; Luke 24:27. Thus Jesus, Paul, and first-century believers used the Scriptures as the foundation for their teaching. They knew that “all Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”—2 Timothy 3:16, 17; see also 1 Corinthians 4:6; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:20, 21. Since the Bible can ‘set things straight,’ it should clearly reveal information about a matter as fundamental as the Trinity is claimed to be. But do theologians and historians themselves say that it is clearly a Bible teaching? To me they are indeed clear and logical and the Son of God is not the Almighty Jehovah but his son. Truthfinder |
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22 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87530 | ||
Hi Glenn, If Goodnewsminister is expounding on scriptures and I see that they don't contradict other verses I support him on those arguments. If Herbert W. Armstrong does the same I likewise support him on those arguments. If the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society does the same I likewise support them on those arguments. If the contrary is true then I simply express my understanding using scriptural proof texts. If T. Morant uses a textural proof for an argument and I understand that other scriptural texts contradict them, I have presented some of them. I have yet to find any contradictions in the Bible for the way I believe but if one believes the trinity then there are many. By the way, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness. Truthfinder |
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23 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87644 | ||
Hi Curtman Yes, you are exactly correct as far as I am concerned. Isa. 44:6 and 45:5 tells us there is only one God (mighty one) to us that should be viewed as the Supreme God, Almighty God, The Father. To view any other God in his place is wrong. It is interesting that you ask this question, because the making of more that one god as the sole GOD is exactly polytheistic. Remember what the words “elohim and “theos” mean. Anything venerated, a mighty one. Remember too that paying honor to such ones in a relative sense may be both proper and righteous. However polytheism is most certainly idolatry. Egypt’s religion was polytheistic, characterized by over 500 gods, and possibly twice that many. “Throughout Egypt generally the company of gods of a town or city were three in number,” says Egyptologist E. A. Wallis Budge. In time, a principal triad developed, a holy family composed of Osiris, the father; Isis, the mother; and Horus, the child. Polytheism resulted in several gods’ claiming to be ‘the sole god.’ But priests and theologians evidently saw no problem in believing in one god and at the same time viewing him as existing in a multitude of forms. Author B. Mertz comments that this “is only another example of that pleasant inconsistency which is so characteristic of Egyptian religion.” When the Son of God, Jesus is viewed as the sole God as the Father only should be viewed, is exactly polytheistic. Recognizing Jesus as a Mighty One (Elohim) is not polytheistic as long as he is not viewed as the Almighty One. Worshipping Jesus as the Son of God is relative and proper but worshipping him as the sole God in stead of as the Son of God is not. Jesus is the one that said, “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” Mat. 4:10 quoting Deut. 10:20 Actually the phrase “other gods” appears 84 times in the Bible and 5 times as “other god”. To error is to say all these are false gods (mighty ones. The Bible plainly says they are gods. Satan is a god, plain and simple. 2 Cor. 4:4. What kind of god is he? He is a "false" god. But just because he should not be worshipped as the Almighty God does not make him “no god”. To illustrate: John 8:12 tells us that Jesus is the “light” of the world. But what happens when we read Mat. 5:14? Are Jesus’ disciples “false lights” “not lights” of the world? Of course not. They were still “lights” but not in the same sense that Jesus was and still is the “light” of the world. 1 Tim 1:17 identifies Jesus’ Father as the “one true God”. Additionally to whom did Jesus say he was ascending to when he said, “to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.”—Joh 20:11-18. Polytheism is idolatry, thus Jesus is the Son of God and Jesus’ Father is Almighty God. To say otherwise is an invention of man and contradicts scripture and takes away the due honor to our heavenly Father Jehovah. Truthfinder |
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24 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87676 | ||
Hi Tim, You keep ignoring that if one or two verses say there is only one God and then the other verses I have shown you, identify others such as angels and certain men as gods, then the only way to understand Is. 44:6 and 45:5 is the way I explained them. Otherwise you are ignoring those verses that identify these others as "elohim" gods or mighty ones. One example: At Psalm 8:5, the angels are also referred to as ´elo·him´, as is confirmed by Paul’s quotation of the passage at Hebrews 2:6-8. They are called beneh´ ha ´Elo·him´, “sons of God” (KJ); “sons of the true God” (NW), at Genesis 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1. Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, by Koehler and Baumgartner (1958), page 134, says: “(individual) divine beings, gods.” And page 51 says: “the (single) gods,” and it cites Genesis 6:2; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Hence, at Psalm 8:5 ´elo him´ indeed is used not as false gods but "elo him" and is rendered “angels” in the(LXX)and “godlike ones” in the NWT. Truthfinder |
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25 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87693 | ||
You know "TheCurtman", Moslems insist, in the words of the Koran (5:76-79), that “there is no God but one God,” and we Christians heartily agree, for the Bible itself declares, at 1 Corinthians 8:6, that “there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are.” In the Koran God is “Allah,” for in Arabic the word Allah means “the God.” The Bible gives us his name, saying “Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”Mark 12:29.(Quote of Deut. 6:4) But when Christians use the expression “the Son of God,” Moslems vehemently protest, “God has no son.” They quote the Koran, which says, at Suras 4:169; 6:101; 19:36: “God is only one God! Far be it from His glory that He should have a son!” “How, when He hath no consort, should He have a son?” “It beseemeth not God to beget a son.” Of course, it would be foolish for anyone to limit the power of God by saying, ‘God cannot have a son.’ Truthfully, the Koran proclaims, “Verily, God is Almighty.” (2:19) He is the Creator of the universe, of heaven and earth and of the creatures in them. As God said to Abraham, that man of faith recognized by both Christians and Moslems, “Is anything too extraordinary for Jehovah?” A person who really is in submission to the Omnipotent God must agree with the prophet who said, “With God all things are possible.”—Gen. 18:14; Matt. 19:26. No Moslem denies that it is God who created humans and endowed them with power to have sons. Yes, God created Adam with power to have sons. Now, was it a blind man who invented and made the first camera? Or was it a deaf man who first thought of and fashioned the telephone? No, reasons Sir Isaac Newton, the English mathematician, physicist and astronomer. He said, “Was the eye contrived without skill in optics, or the ear without knowledge of sounds?” In support of the obvious answer the Bible says: “Understand, you who are unreasoning among the people; and as for you stupid ones, when will you have any insight? The One planting the ear, can he not hear? Or the One forming the eye, can he not look?” (Ps. 94:8, 9) The One who gave man power to have sons, can He not have a son? “Verily, God is Almighty.” The logical answer is an indisputable Yes, and that is why Abraham believed when God told him that he would have a son. With just elementary insight a reasoning person must agree: God can have a son. Truthfinder |
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26 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87700 | ||
Hi again TheCurtman, The Old Testament Hebrew lexicon: Brown, Driver, Briggs, Gesenius Lexicon defines "Elo him" as: (plural) rulers, judges divine ones angels gods (plural intensive - singular meaning) god, goddess godlike one works or special possessions of God the (true) God God The Hebrew word ´elo·him´ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ´Elo·him´ is the plural of ´eloh´ah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ´Elo·him´ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men. When applying to Jehovah, ´Elo·him´ is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. (Ge 1:1) Regarding this, Aaron Ember wrote: “That the language of the O[ld] T[estament] has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . . . [´Elo·him´] (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . [´Elo·him´] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.”—The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208. Truthfinder |
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27 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87709 | ||
If you want to read an interesting 'viewpoint' of the renown scientist Sir Isaac Newton, go to the yellow box for the Search entry and enter the word Tara as the User and words used enter Newton. I just came across it a few minutes ago. Truthfinder |
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28 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87849 | ||
Hi The Curtman, The answer to your question: Please remember that the pronoun "He" is Jesus. Also I removed the words "other" which were in brackets to show they were inserted to clearify the thought since some here have a problem with that. Notice Jesus is the image of God and not God, too. God used him to create the stars, earth, man, and angels. Col. 1:15 13 He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, 14 by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all things and by means of him all things were made to exist, To reinforce his point, Paul cited this universal truth." as found at Heb. 3:4 “Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God.” No one should dispute that God is greater than anyone, for he is the Builder, or Creator, of all. Logically, then, since Jesus was God’s coworker, he must be greater than all other creation, including Moses but not greater that himself so inserting "other" would be appropriate. 1 Cor 11:2,3, 2 Now I commend YOU because in all things YOU have me in mind and YOU are holding fast the traditions just as I handed [them] on to YOU. 3 But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God For centuries Proverbs 8:30 has been used to clearify this thought. Proverbs 8:22-30, 22 “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men. Truthfinder |
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29 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87889 | ||
Hi Tim, I am certainly not saying God is lying Titus 1:2. Yet 2 Tim 3:16 says "all" scripture is inspired of God", so "his" use of elohim, el, elim, and theos must be understood as "gods" too. That is why the most common Biblical word in the original was whvh, to identify the one true God that is to be given exclusive devotion. Therefore Jesus is "worshipped" in a relative sense. He should be worshipped, be given honor as God's only-begotten son, not as the Almighty who alone deserves exclusive devotion. Exclusive devotion is demanded by Jehovah in the second of the “Ten Words” or Ten Commandments written by the finger of God: “I am Jehovah your God . . . You must never have any other gods against my face [or, “any other gods in defiance of me”]. . . . because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.” (De 5:6-9) 17 Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. Mat. 4:10 10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” As you say Tim, then did Jesus lie? Truthfinder |
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30 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87890 | ||
Hi The Curtman, I am happy to see that you agree with me concerning the use of elohim in referencing angels, certain men etc. Hebrew is indeed an interesting language. I don't even claim to know Hebrew but I have studied it in Rice University, Houston TX. Here's one example to answer your question. Ordinarily the eem sufix of Heb words indicate the masculine plural. In Psalm 89:6: “Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God [bi·beneh´ ´E·lim´]?” That the plural form is used to denote a single individual here and in a number of other places is supported by the translation of ´E·lim´ by the singular form The·os´ in the Greek Septuagint; likewise by Deus in the Latin Vulgate. Theon is the plural in Greek and Deum in Latin. Truthfinder |
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31 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87907 | ||
Hmmmmm, And the footnote in those translations say possessed means "formed". Truthfinder |
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32 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87910 | ||
Proverbs 8:22 Persons who accept only the Hebrew Scriptures or who do not believe in Jesus Christ often explain Proverbs 8:22-31 as applying to Wisdom personified only in some figurative way. That application of the verses, however, does not agree with what is known about God. Furthermore, accepting the sound view that the entire Bible, including Proverbs, is inspired, a person can see that the description of “Wisdom” here in Proverbs matches what is said elsewhere in the Bible about the Son of God. We read: “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. . . . Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains . . . When he prepared the heavens I was there; . . . then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, . . . and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.”—Prov. 8:22-31. Jewish commentators, objecting to any application of this passage to Jesus as the Messiah, have usually held that this is merely a literary personification of wisdom. Thus, W. Gunther Plaut, in his work Book of Proverbs—A Commentary, says that these verses apply to Wisdom “personified only in a figurative way.” This passage, however, cannot be speaking merely about divine wisdom or wisdom in the abstract. Why not? Because the “Wisdom” that is here depicted was “created” or “produced” (Hebrew, qa·nah´) as the beginning of Jehovah’s way. The Scriptures show that Jehovah God himself has always existed. (Ps. 90:2; 1 Tim. 1:17) Since he is eternal and he has always been wise, then his wisdom has always existed; it never was created or produced; it was not “brought forth as with labor pains.” (Job 9:2, 4; 12:9, 13; 28:20, 23; Rom. 11:33-36) Wisdom does not exist apart from a personality capable of possessing and reflecting it. Consequently, this “Wisdom” must be a personification picturing someone who was created “as the beginning of [God’s] way.” The Christian Greek Scriptures aid a person to understand to whom this passage evidently refers. They repeatedly testify to the fact that the Messiah had a prehuman existence as the Son of God in heaven with Jehovah. (John 17:5; 6:62) In that prehuman existence he worked with Jehovah in creating all other things. John 1:3 says about this one: “All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.”—Compare Colossians 1:15, 16. It is understandable that the Son of God could be depicted as created “Wisdom.” Through him Jehovah’s wise purpose, including the role of the Messiah whom the Jews were long awaiting, was made manifest. The apostle Paul said about Jesus: “Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge.” (Col. 2:3) While King Solomon was renowned for his God-given wisdom, Jesus was “something more than Solomon.” (1 Ki. 4:30-34; Matt. 12:42) Those who accepted Jesus Christ and had faith in him realized that he was “the power of God and the wisdom of God.”—1 Cor. 1:24, 30. Accordingly, what we know about our eternally wise God and the information in the Christian Greek Scriptures about Jesus combine to make clear the appropriateness of applying Proverbs 8:22-31 to the Son of God who became the Messiah. That passage remarkably fits the origin and activities of that one whose fondness for mankind even led to his dying as a ransom sacrifice.—1 Tim. 2:5, 6; John 3:16. In the past, commentators and translators who held to the Trinity doctrine argued that qa·nah´ should here be rendered “possessed.” Qa·nah´ can convey the sense of either “acquire (possess)” or “produce.” (Gen. 4:1; Deut. 32:6; Ps. 139:13; Neh. 5:16) But scholars acknowledge that the context here points to the rendering “produced” or “created,” since verses 24 and 25 speak of Wisdom as being “brought forth as with labor pains.” This rendering is borne out by the Greek Septuagint, the Syriac Peshitta Version and the Targums. So now even translations by trinitarians, such as the Catholic Jerusalem Bible, use the rendering “produced” or “created.” Truthfinder |
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33 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87911 | ||
Radioman, A little study of this says otherwise. See Tertullian’s “Against Praxeas.” Therein, in Chapter 7, he says: “The Son likewise acknowledges the Father, speaking in his own person, under the name of Wisdom: ‘The LORD formed me as the beginning of his ways.’” See also comments on Proverbs 8:22 by Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Theophilus of Antioch, Clement of Alexandria, Cyprian (The Treatises of), Origen’s “De Principiis,” Dionysius, and Lactantius. Truthfinder |
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34 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87912 | ||
Hi Radioman, “The Lord [Hebrew: JHVH, created me as the beginning of his way, the first of his works from the commencement. From eternity was I appointed chief, from the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. When there were yet no depths, was I brought forth; when there were yet no springs laden heavily with water. Before the mountains were yet sunk down, before the hills was I brought forth: while as yet he had not made the land and open fields, nor the chief of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle over the face of the deep; when he fastened the skies above; when the springs of the deep became strong; when he assigned to the sea his decree, that the waters should not transgress his order; when he established firmly the foundations of the earth: then was I near him, as a nursling; and I was day by day his delights, playing before him at all times; playing [feminine participle] in the world, his earth; and having my delights with the sons of men.”—Proverbs 8:22-31, Rabbi Isaac Leeser’s translation, of 1853. Jewish leaders are concerned about the application that may be made of the above Bible verses. In the Soncino Press edition of Proverbs, of 1945, we read in the footnote on this section: “For the Jewish reader this interpretation is of much importance in view of the Christological use made of this section by the early Church Fathers.” At any rate, Proverbs 8:22 speaks of something as being created as the beginning of the way of Jehovah God, as “the first of his works from the commencement.” Truthfinder |
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35 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87916 | ||
Hi Radioman, Now that I think about it, the expression “the creation of God” of Revelation 3:14 could mean the creation possessed by God or belonging to God. Or, it could grammatically mean also the creation produced by God. But the apostle John helps us by his writings to know which kind of genitive it is in the Greek. It is agreed by producers of the Greek text of the Christian Scriptures that Revelation 3:14 quoted or borrowed its Greek words from Proverbs 8:22. As translated by Charles Thomson from the Greek Septuagint, Proverbs 8:22 reads: “The Lord created me, the beginning of His ways, for His works.” Here we see "created" not "possessed" in the (Greek LXX) and also we see the word “beginning” (Greek LXX: arkhé) does not mean Beginner, Origin or Originator. Plainly it means the first one or original one of God’s ways to be created. This same thought is conveyed in Revelation 3:14 in regard to the “beginning of the creation of God.” Truthfinder |
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36 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 87917 | ||
Proverbs 8:22 "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago." The second half of the verse clearly shows that something was achieved, accomplished. The earliest thing accomplished was the creation of his "only-begotten son". 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, This verse also shows the translations must be "produced" not "possessed". Does it make any sense to say that Jesus was possessed as with labor pains? No, but he was "created" as with labor pains. Revelation 3:14, helps us here, "These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God." when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, Now let's look at Col 1:15 and see that Jesus is that "master worker". 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist "and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time," Here, who other that Jesus would Almighty God be especially fond of? Noneother that his "only-begotten son". 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men. Truthfinder |
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37 | Did the Gospel writers write in Greek | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88013 | ||
Hi EdB, History tells us that Matthew was written in Hebrew and Hebrew was still common during the days of the apostles. Remember that the inscription placed above Jesus when he was put to death, was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Notice the evidence we have: External evidence to the effect that Matthew originally wrote this Gospel in Hebrew reaches as far back as Papias of Hierapolis, of the second century C.E. Eusebius quoted Papias as stating: “Matthew collected the oracles in the Hebrew language.” (The Ecclesiastical History, III, XXXIX, 16) Early in the third century, Origen made reference to Matthew’s account and, in discussing the four Gospels, is quoted by Eusebius as saying that the “first was written . . . according to Matthew, who was once a tax-collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, . . . in the Hebrew language.” (The Ecclesiastical History, VI, XXV, 3-6) The scholar Jerome (of the fourth and fifth centuries C.E.) wrote in his work De viris inlustribus (Concerning Illustrious Men), chapter III, that Matthew “composed a Gospel of Christ in Judaea in the Hebrew language and characters for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed. . . . Moreover, the Hebrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected.”—Translation from the Latin text edited by E. C. Richardson and published in the series “Texte und Untersuchungen zur Geschichte der altchristlichen Literatur,” Leipzig, 1896, Vol. 14, pp. 8, 9. McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia states: “Passages from Matthew are quoted by Justin Martyr, by the author of the letter to Diognetus (see in Otto’s Justin Martyr, vol. ii), by Hegesippus, Irenæus, Tatian, Athenagoras, Theophilus, Clement, Tertullian, and Origen. It is not merely from the matter, but the manner of the quotations, from the calm appeal as to a settled authority, from the absence of all hints of doubt, that we regard it as proved that the book we possess had not been the subject of any sudden change.” A statement by a modern Bible scholar, Hugh G. Schonfield, is also of interest. He writes on page 11 of An Old Hebrew Text of St. Matthew’s Gospel: “As far back as the fourth century we hear of a Hebrew Matthew preserved in the Jewish archives at Tiberias.” Truthfinder |
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38 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88123 | ||
Hi The Curtman Here's one example to answer your question. You said in you post that elo-him means "plurality in unity". I want to know, "says who"? I want to know the authority that defines elo-him that way. You see, ordinarily the eem sufix or ending of Heb words indicate the masculine plural, as "os" indicated the masculine singular of most Spanish nouns. In Psalm 89:6: “Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God [bi·beneh´ ´E·lim´]?” You notice here Jehovah is in the plural but refering only to one God. If it were intended to mean "plurality in unity" then the LXX (Greek translation would have used the word "theon" but it did not. It used the word "theos" (the singular form of the word for God) thus showing elo-him when refering to Jehovah is in the singular. Truthfinder That the plural form is used to denote a single individual here and in a number of other places is supported by the translation of ´E·lim´ by the singular form The·os´ in the Greek Septuagint; likewise by Deus in the Latin Vulgate. Theon is the plural in Greek and Deum in Latin. |
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39 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88179 | ||
Hi Pastor Glenn, Sorry I don't understand your question. But since wisdom as always existed, then certainly knowledge along with understanding have always existed. Yet, it is quite conclusive that Revelation 3:14 and Col 3:15 along with Proverb 8:22 that this one was indeed the "son" of God, the only begotten son" John 1:14 created by God, the "only-begotten god" (John 1:18)who has explained the Almighty God,(his Father). Notice please, 1 Cor 8:5, "For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him." Truthfinder |
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40 | Does anyone have a good way to explain t | Bible general Archive 1 | Truthfinder | 88273 | ||
Hi The Curtman, "Let us make man in our image". Jehovah is speaking to Jesus. (Col. 1:15)I already addressed this issue. Certainly the word elohim is in the plural. But as you know I wanted to know what Lexicon or Hebrew authority has defined "elohim" as you did, "plurality in unity". You quoted the editors of the NIV (known trinitarians)as saying the plural form denotes foregleams of the trinity. All I can say to that is absolute nonsense. You can not ignore as I said earlier that this word is used in the same way for individual pagan divinities, such as Dagon (1 Samuel 5:7) and Marduk (Daniel 1:2), who were not triune gods. Commenting on this, Oxford scholar R. B. Girdlestone writes in his Synonyms of the Old Testament: “Many critics, however, of unimpeachable [Trinitarian] orthodoxy, think it wiser to rest where such divines as Cajetan [a theologian] in the Church of Rome and Calvin among Protestants were content to stand, and to take the plural form as a plural of majesty.” Such Trinitarian theologians doubtless realized that if they took ‘Elo·him´ as a numerical plural (gods), they would become polytheists! Summing up on so-called Old Testament proofs of the Trinity, the Protestant Cyclopædia by M’Clintock and Strong states: “Thus it appears that none of the passages cited from the Old Test[ament] in proof of the Trinity are conclusive . . . We do not find in the Old Test[ament] clear or decided proof upon this subject.” Truthfinder |
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